POLITICS 11/30/2017 01:42 pm ET Updated Nov 30, 2017 Federal Judge Slams Trump Administration’s ‘Ci

What's obvious is you're making sh!t up. Sorry no longer interested in discussing me, discuss the topic of the thread or leave.

 

Have you forgotten how Reagan funded the Taliban? He flooded America with cocaine. Learn American history.

 

No one is innocent during war time.

 

Right. Everyone wants war just because their government wants it. And everyone participates in the bloodbath, including the kiddies.

 

Exactly.

 

What's that supposed to be proof of? Not a link in sight.

 

So if that insanity is true why are you here behind your keyboard posting? You should be participating in the bloodbath along with your children (if you have any). As for me, reality is this is where I was during the Vietnam war on one occasion:



https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/15/nov-15-1969-anti-vietnam-war-demonstration-held/

And I find it reprehensible that most Americans have become complacent about this endless war for the benefit of the military industrial complex and there is no protesting at all.

"War is a Racket" - Major General Smedley D. Butler, USMC

And as a result, all Americans are now "suspected terrorists" living in a "war zone" and can be apprehended and confined indefinitely without any due process whatsoever, according to NDAA 2012. Interestingly, Thursday came and went and not one follow up article about this situation from the MSM. I would have liked to know what happened with respect to the judge's order (getting back to the topic at hand). Anyone find any article on this or are they just covering it up via silence?

 

For contrast, here's an article titled:

For captured ISIS fighters in Iraq, justice is swift and conviction certain

“Unfortunately this justice system revolves around confessions. In Iraq, generally, when there is a crime, they hold the guy and beat him until he says he did it and that is the evidence.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/captured...stice-swift-conviction-certain-174952840.html

So "justice" in Iraq consists of torture until the "suspect" "confesses", then the "confession" is used as evidence to convict the "suspect". At Gitmo, it's similar except there is no trial. Detainees are held indefinitely, period. Occasionally, detainees who have been renditioned to black sites and/or tortured (virtually all of them have experienced US government "hospitality") have been released after many years in detention without ever being charged, much less tried.

So what's the difference? Not much, no due process in either case. US government "justice" and "democracy" has successfully been rammed down Iraqi throats.

Like I said, Welcome to Amerika - Land of the Free.

 

That Max lied about what I said.

There are four links, all to relevant posts. What other link do you figure is needed?

 

Could had been 50,000 too.

As far as I can see "you" did not respond adequate. For example you murdered Osama Bin Laden in a theatrical action of blood thirst. Do you think the pictures of the US-American administration watching this murder on TV brought the USA worldwide only a little respect? Another example: What had the war in Iraq of the USA to do with a war on terror? It was the opposite: It was a war for terror. The USA in the Iraq created the terror organization "islamic state" (=ISIS) and strengthened the movement Islamism. The USA is today the main reason why our not existing German government sends everywhere into the world German idiots with weapons, also called soldiers, although no German has only a light idea about, what they are doing there on what reasons. Why needs Germany - the land without government - military control about what?

Today many many young men in the world of the Muslims are not to able to earn some money for their families but terror organization likes them to be their members. What will you do? To nuke them one day and to watch this per TV and to speak about glory and moral strength (=who kills is right to do so, as long as it are the USA killing in the name of the USA)? What is "the USA" searching for? ... Betlehem? ... The USA is a joke of world history, isn't it? ´

 

What is your proposal? People like you complain that the US should stay behind it's own borders then you complain the US isn't doing enough to help others in foreign countries. Please make up your mind.

I give up. What was "the USA" searching for in Bethlehem?

 

Who knows. It began as me stating that the Patriot Act was an example of Americans giving up essential liberties for the illusion of safety following 9/11. @yguy disagreed and asked for evidence. I posted a few links in post #249: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...nd-of-the-free.520104/page-13#post-1068348270

He didn't like my response and wanted more but tagged it with "I'll ignore it" if I didn't follow his criteria for response. At that point I perceived the conversation was moving in direction aggressive irrationality. Now he's pissed at me.

 

I'm sorry, debate is supposed to be fun.

 

Yes, it is fun. While we shouldn't take discussion with anonymous posters too seriously, we also shouldn't be willing to let some person utter complete bull **** without contradiction. OTOH, there are a few people on this forum who I consider to be, umm, a few cans short of a six pack. When it's clear other members of the forum recognize they are not mentally stable, there is no point in confronting them even when they say something 100% wrong.

 

Good point!

 

¿People like I?

What else likes the USA to do? To move Texas to Africa?

Do you read what others say? Or do you just simple think something because it is the opposite of this what you think they think?

¿"Macht hoch die Tür"?

A child in a manger.

 

I'll assume you surrender in our debate then? Better luck and better preparation next time.............

 

I posted many times that I don't debate, I discuss. You insist on discussing me and not the topic of the thread. The above is OFF TOPIC and not within the scope of any discussion I want to have. You are warned once more, stick to the topic or stay out of my thread, you are trolling.

 

You simple don't understand juxtaposition. I brought it up discussing your topic. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's off topic. I simply compared what Trump did to what Obama did, that my friend is right on topic. If you don't like the on topic responses, don't start threads.

 

Once again, you're discussing me and not the topic.

That's not true, you insisted on discussing me, you were reported and the mod(s) agreed and deleted your post. As to comparing acts under the Obama and Trump administration (as well as Bush), I already acknowledged both are similar violations of the Constitution in this thread and in many other posts that I've written. You attacked my honesty and credibility for not providing proof of my prior posts for which I am under no obligation to you to research my own posts for your personal convenience.

If you refuse to discuss the topic, you're trolling and you will be reported. I am not going to warn you again.

 

Now let's compare this with the OP's article about Trump....

I find it amazing that anyone could find what Obama did acceptable and condemn Trump for holding an US Citizen enemy combatant without access to a lawyer. If they lined him up against the wall and shot him then I would. Under Trump this guy's still alive and will likely be released, under Obama he'd likely be dead by now....

eight U.S. citizens killed in U.S. drone strikes. Where was their constitutional rights?

Under Trump they end up being detained with their rights withheld due to their seditious activity, under Obama they just ended up in pieces with the Obama administration acting as judge, jury and executioner. How's that for being on topic and comparing the two?

 

Much better thank you.

Neither is acceptable and both have committed war crimes, crimes against the Constitution and crimes against humanity.

You're speculating. Both Presidents have caused the death of innocent civilians, both have denied access to basic rights, including due process, both have committed heinous crimes under the Constitution and international treaty (a subset of the Constitution). The drone program has not been eliminated or reduced under Trump. And Bush certainly is a big part of the same discussion. None of these are a lesser criminal than the other.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/trump-admin-wants-increase-cia-drone-strikes-n802311

Now you see you can discuss this issue without discussing me and attacking me, it wasn't very difficult, was it?

 

I didn't think I had to spell it out, but then again I guess not many folks read the garbage posted as an OP.

I agree, but to chastise one without the other is simple hypocrisy.

Yes, but only one has killed 8 Americans without due process.

From torture to drone strikes: the disturbing legal legacy Obama is leaving for Trump

 

1. It wasn't a matter of spelling anything out, you attacked me rather than stick to the topic.
2. You are always free to ignore any thread or post that you consider "garbage" or respond to it in a civil manner, rather than attacking the poster.
3. Since you are posting here, it seems to me "garbage" is only what you disagree with, not your own posts of course, despite that one has been deleted for trolling.

Except this thread is about an issue currently going on during the Trump administration, not the Obama administration. So the discussion is NOT about comparing the two. There is nothing hypocritical about it.

For me the issue in the above case is murder, period. I don't care what the nationality of the victim is. Anyone who is murdered in cold blood is murdered without due process. Narrow minded Americans only care if it's an American murdered, non-Americans are not human in their eyes, "god bless America", the rest can go to hell. I'm an equal opportunity President basher. There is no difference for me between one war criminal and another. This particular topic of discussion is about the intentional lack of due process granted to an American citizen. That usually draws the attention of Americans since many actually believe only Americans have rights protected by the Constitution, the rest, innocent or not, can be drawn and quartered as the US government sees fit and it's perfectly ok with them since these non-Americans are not really human. They live in the fantasy of exceptionalism. It's not much different than Hitler's Aryanism.

What are you trying to say by the above article? It's irrelevant what Obama did, Trump is free to either follow Obama's philosophy, amend it or reject it. And if he was a real President acting within the confines of the Constitution, he would end the illegal permanent war on terror the second he takes office and call for an investigation into the war crimes perpetrated by his last two predecessors. But that's a different discussion.

 

I didn't attack you I simply asked you to prove your position, not believing what you're saying isn't an attack even though you might think so.