Welcome to Amerika - land of the free

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bob0627, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member

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    Individual rights tend to fall by the wayside during wars.

    Some of these things though create concerning precedents. If it could happen to one person, what really is there, in terms of legal justification, to stop it from happening to someone else under very different circumstances? Do we just have to trust the discretion of the officials administering the law? I don't know, I'd like a little more legal safeguard written into the law.

    If someone in another country that's being occupied resists U.S. forces, and they're suspected of being with ISIL, what should we do with them?

    Maybe they can't know for sure whether the captured suspect was really a member of ISIL or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 6:15 AM
  2. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, a stand up comic. You must not have been able to find a Garfield cartoon to make your misguided point.
     
  3. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    No, I oppose both torture and rape. I oppose any kind of assault against an innocent individual, and I do agree with the presumption of innocence.

    As to Article 5 of GC, the one I just looked up on Google did not contain any language suggestive at all of the language you quote above. Maybe you could provide a link to your version of Article 5. The one I found on a quick look was only about 2 sentences long, and did not contain your language. Maybe you meant another Article?
     
  4. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that only Nazis and those who accuse the US of being a Nazi-like dictatorship call us "Amerika". I disagree with both opinions.
     
  5. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with summary executions of terrorists no matter what their country of origin.
     
  6. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. The key is due process. When we empower our government to do as it pleases regardless of the Constitution, we are inviting trouble.
     
  7. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I am guilty of repeating information which may not have been completely true. I was of the opinion that terrorists had no rights whatsoever based on what I've heard, without investigating it for myself. I think in the past an unlawful combatant, did not have rights, and was subject to execution on capture.



    The same article posted above does in fact go into better detail of the rights of unlawful combatants and I may be in fact wrong regarding the rights of terrorists or unlawful combatants. If that being the case is true, I still believe that they shouldn't be given any rights whatsoever, American or otherwise.
     
  8. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have no problem kill them in the act or when confronted if need be due to threat like any other American, but after caught, I do not support he DP, lwop is the harsher punishment imo
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 12:01 PM
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Who is "we"? The US Army, CIA and other government contractors (e.g. Blackwater) did torture and perhaps the CIA still does. This is a historical fact. The Senate Intelligence Committee report on torture is quite clear on that and we also know that torture and murder of innocent people were committed at Abu Ghraib.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
    https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pu...dy-on-cia-detention-and-interrogation-program
     
  10. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    I don't think what a few reservists did at Abu Ghraib were sponsored or endorsed by the US or any agency named. This is why there were punished. Still I have no sympathy for anyone who is a terrorist and suffers any injustice. Don't care. Don't become a terrorist if you are worried about suffering injustice. Stay home and become a productive member of the "religion of peace".
     
  11. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Actually all German speaking people spell it as Amerika. If the Constitution is being violated with impunity by all 3 branches of the US government as exemplified in the article in the first post (and many other examples), this US government is then no different than any other banana republic/fascist dictatorship.
     
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    There is evidence that Donald Rumsfeld consented to the mistreatment of Abu Ghraib detainees. The Senate Intelligence Committee on torture found that the CIA torture program was conducted with the consent of the Bush administration. The only CIA operative that was ever punished with respect to the CIA's rendition and torture program was John Kiriakou, who blew the whistle on the CIA's rendition and torture program.

    I take the same position, however that has nothing to do with the point of this thread. It isn't about your or my non sympathy for terrorists. By the same token those who engage in torture are terrorists and all who direct and/or take part should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity, with all due process protections granted of course as mandated by the Constitution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 12:59 PM
  13. PatriotNews

    PatriotNews Well-Known Member

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    Anyone here care to hold terrorists accountable? Is there any terrorist who is currently undergoing crimes against humanity or war crimes? Not that I'm aware of.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    You quoted me. Don't you read what you quote?



    No one in the Bush, Obama or Trump administration or the CIA is currently being tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity. And these war crimes are still ongoing daily, since 9/11.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 1:13 PM
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    your right, we should not torture, but it has been used
     
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    If that solution came to pass, Washington DC and Tel Aviv would become depopulated.
     
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  17. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    One star for you for admitting your error.
     
  18. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    How very amusing.

    That would be you - which is why you butchered my post, obviously.
     
  19. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Uh, what?

    You just said "that might be true.."

    Well if it IS true then the Bill of Rights doesn't matter. When his citizenship is lost through treasonous acts, he is no longer a citizen and no longer benefits from our laws. He is now an enemy combatant.
     
  20. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    The people we fight against? No they are not bound by the Constitution and if this guy became an enemy combatant he has thrown away his citizenship (as you just agreed might be true) and then he no longer is bound to it nor does he benefit from it.

    When it come to military action we/they/whoever is bound by the Geneva Convention, not the Constitution.

    Please stop with the snide remarks, just debate like a grown up.
     

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