What exactly IS time?

Discussion in 'Science' started by DarwinParty, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    i perhaps have more time in physics, then you have spent eating hot meals.

    Our difference is not the math so much as the integrity behind the use of it. Your posts share, that theorem is more important than comprehension. what makes me a weeeeeeeeeee bit more equiped than you, is i have over 3 decades of comprehending both.

    ie... it is why i can address time, energy, mass and how they apply within each of the other, then capable of combining the context to basic comprehension and practical application so anyone can see for themselves

    I will bet you have learned more from me, that your whole education combined but just too arrogant to admit it.


    how many have noticed he posts pretty much where i am at?
     
  2. DarwinParty

    DarwinParty New Member

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    You think I insulted you?? Wow lol I didn't insult you...
     
  3. TheLaw

    TheLaw New Member

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    Time is an abstract idea that humans created to describe change. Time does not consist of anything physical anymore than love does.
     
  4. armor99

    armor99 New Member

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    From what I understand.... it has in fact been proven. The space shuttle is the fastest object with people in it known. I believe they have done experiments proving that the clocks on the space shuttle do in fact slow down a bit, due to the extreme speed. However, the change is minutely small... but apparently it is measureable... Sorry, I have no link for it... but I am sure it is out there detailed somewhere...
     
  5. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    That must be why my hair is gray.
    Just an abstract thing.
     
  6. timgkelly

    timgkelly New Member

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    Right here folks.
     
  7. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clock-time is only a man made measuring stick mostly based on the rotation of the earth to which we can compare our everyday experiences.

    Sometimes the 'clock' seems to move slow (like the last hour of a workday) and sometimes it seems to move fast (like when we are having a good time).

    Time is a perception, a concept and is in constant flux. I don't think I really addressed your post but I had a lot of fun thinking about time. Geesh...where did the time go???
     
  8. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    In addition, I am sane where you are not. The comprehension of why no information can be gained from an entangled system is quite easy to understand. Consider two cats in superposition, both dead and alive in a box with observers Alice and Bob separated by a distance. Suppose Alice opens her box and see's it dead. Now, in order for Bob to know the state of his cat he has to open the box, perform a measurement. But, how does he know that Alice opened her box before he opened his? If she did then his cat must be alive, a deterministic value. But if he opened the box to quickly then the probability of his cat being dead or alive is 1/2 and Alice's dead cat is determined by Bob's measurement. Neither Alice nor Bob can know who opened the box first unless they use a classical channel of information to convey the message. Thus, no information can be gained from entanglement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

    Simple to understand for someone who claims to know so much about physics and mathematics.
     
  9. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    Time can be defined from the different velocities an observer would see from different inertial reference frames. Classically this is know as a galilean transformation:

    x' = x - vt

    Now, we know from numerous experiments that c = c', that is light has the same velocity in all inertial reference frames. Therefore,

    let x = ct and x' = ct'

    We need to add a constant Gamma(Y) to describe the function of v such that,

    t' = (Y/c)t(c-v) and t = (Y/c)t'(c-v)

    By substitution we get t' = [(Y/c)^2]t'(c+v)(c-v)

    Solving for Gamma, Y = 1/Sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2))

    Time-Dilation is defined as dt' = Ydt. So how do we know time varies with velocity? Through continuous experimental verification.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation_of_moving_particles

    Basically, Muon's have a half-life such that after a duration of time half the group of Muon's will die, so on and so forth. Well Muon's are created in the upper atmosphere by radiation colliding with oxygen and travel very close to the speed of light. The time it takes them to reach sea level far exceeds there half-life, on the order to ~10^40. So one would assume that no Muons would be detected, however that is not the case. Precisely the amount of Muons are detected by calculating the time-dilation of the half-life with the above equation. So, if time didn't really exist and it was just a made up concept then how exactly did the muons reach the surface?
     
  10. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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    Of course you do. I mean, why would anyone ever lie about credentials on an anonymous forum?


    They already knew that just from satellites. GPS satellites had to be tuned to compensate for the time difference in orbit.


    I do:

     
  11. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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    But it exists independently of observation. If you become unconscious, time may stop for you, but only from your point of view. It keeps going for the rest if us.

    If you become unconscious while falling, and then regain consciousness before you hit the ground, you will still have covered that distance. Even if time appeared to "stop" while you were unconscious.

    This is why time is real IMO.
     
  12. Nullity

    Nullity Active Member

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    The most succinct definition of time would be, our perception of a sequence of events in relation to one another.

    When considering relativity within the context of physics, things get much more complicated, and though the definition is still valid, it is not quite adequate in detail.
     
  13. kshRox01

    kshRox01 Banned

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    . . . and gravity
     
  14. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Time is relative based on perspective. Most folks who have experienced a fall, car accident etc. will relate that everything seemed to move in slow motion for however, an observer to that accident may have a different sense of time elapsed for the incident.
     
  15. Tribearer_Eko

    Tribearer_Eko New Member

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    the faster you go the slower time passes
     
  16. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    But no matter the perspective you fall at the same rate. And a car accident happens within a time frame.

    Whether you think it happens slow or fast a clock will tell you how much time has past. Just like an hour is an hour at work. If it seems an hour passes slowly or quickly makes no difference... it is still an hour.
     
  17. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A clock is a man-made mechanical device that segments the Earth's rotation.... 1 rotation is 24 hours (more or less). A clock is not 'time' it is our perspective of time. Time is relative to velocity and probably gravity.
     
  18. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    Not all clocks. Forgetting atomic clocks that measure the time between the release of photons during it's decay.
     
  19. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    An hour is simply 60s which is relative to your frame of reference. t(v) or t(g). Time is a function of both velocity and gravity, which means it changes dependent on space.
     
  20. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Same idea.
     
  21. leftlegmoderate

    leftlegmoderate New Member

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    Time is action.
     
  22. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And action includes gravity, mass and light.
     
  23. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    The problem is that speed has an upper upper limit: the speed of light. So everything is relative to this absolute speed. Because we are living in a low speed world we don't have a good feeling for the high speed world in the near of the light speed. That's what you are calling "it makes no sense". It makes indeed not a sense in our normal ways of thoughts but mathematics shows very clear what is going on. I don't know why in the most schools teachers don't speak very detailed about the relativity factor of Einsteins formulas. This factor is:

    [​IMG]

    If you are a little experienced in mathematics and you set v as a value 0-1 of the lightspeed c=1 then you are able to see very easy that the relativity factor gamma grows endless if v grows direction lightspeed.

    How to make it now "sense"-ful? Perhaps you are able to imagine you would exist as if you would be light yourselve. Light moves with light speed. In this case no time would exist any longer for you. The whole universe from the beginning until its end would be in the same moment. This form of existance would be an angel-like form of existance. We say since a very long time that angels are living in a timeless way.

    In one case we are touching a deep secret of the natural world and in the other case we are touching deep secrets of a spiritual world. And there's a feeling like there would be a bridge of light or a canvas of light to cross over.

    http://youtu.be/urWUCXrTytE
     
  24. Nullity

    Nullity Active Member

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    Not exactly. Observation is a necessary component of time. An object (or event) cannot be observed, and thus measured in time, until the light it either generates or reflects reaches you.

    (I appoligize for the wall of text.)

    There are a few physical principles that must be explained. First, the speed of light is a relative constant, meaning that no matter the frame of reference, it is always the same when viewed locally.

    As an example, say you are riding a bike at 10 MPH and you throw a ball in the same direction at 20 MPH. From your frame of reference, the ball appears to be moving at 20 MPH, but from the reference frame of a stationary observer, the ball was already moving at 10 MPH with you, so the effect is additive and thus appears to be traveling at 30 MPH.

    For the sake of simplicity for this comparison, let's define the speed of light as 20 MPH (same speed you threw the ball).

    Now, let's do the same experiment with a flashlight. While riding a bike at 10 MPH, shine a flashlight in the same direction. From your frame of reference, the light emitted from the flashlight appears to be moving at 20 MPH. Based on the previous example, we would assume that to a stationary observer, the light would seem be traveling at 30 MPH, but it's not - it's still traveling at only 20 MPH.

    Second, all processes — chemical, biological, human perception (e.g. eye and brain), measuring tools — everything, is constrained by the speed of light. There is a "clock", dependent on light speed, functioning at every level, even at an atomic scale (radioactive decay).

    Understanding time dilation is not easy. There is a property of the general theory of relativity referred to as the equivalence principle which basically states that gravitational and inertial mass are the same. In other words, the additional force felt by an object in motion is physically equivalent to a gravitational force of the same strength felt by an object near a massive body (such as a star).

    To put it simply, speed and gravity both affect the perception of time in the same physical way.

    Let's say you are at rest (not moving) at point A and I and am rest at point B. If you shine a light in my direction, it travels vertically directly at me and will reach me in speed of light (c) * distance (d). Now let's put you in a train moving incredibly fast from left to right (from my frame of reference) at the same distance. Now when you shine a light, it not only must move vertically toward me, but it is also traveling horizontally due to your motion. Imagine the movement of the light as the hypotenuse of a right triangle. This means that the light must travel a longer distance to reach me, and your time appears to be moving slower from my frame of reference. There is an animation at the top of this page using a similar example with a clock that will hopefully help clarify.

    Gravity works basically the same way, but instead of movement of the light source, it is caused by a gravitational force on the light itself (which is a whole other can of beans, but you can read up on that). You can see an illustration of this here.
     
  25. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    T = CCG^-1

    CC = cosmological constant

    G^-1 is Gravity proportional to r^2
     

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