What is the difference between capitalism and communism?

Right now China and the USA are tens of trillions in debt. And if we actually broke down that debt. Americans per capita are in the hole MORE than any red chinamen.

If we truly look at these economic systems OBJECTIVELY, is there any difference?

 

Actually, China and USA have capitalist economist systems. The Chinese political system is communist in name only. They keep the name to save face. Do you understand?

 

How is it that China is allegedly communist if it requires capitalism to survive?

 

Couldn't the reverse be said too?

 

China and the USA are in debt, or their governments are?

 

NO! China is not communist, and it's not even socialist. They do not have worker-control of the means of production, ANYWHERE. It is not socialist. It is state capitalism. The state owns the means of production and runs and manages businesses, AND the state is starting to divest, allowing private ownership of businesses. So they are converting from state capitalism to capitalism.

It is completely and egregiously incorrect to refer to China as socialist, and more so "communist"!!!

 

the conversion from 1980 forward has been communism to state capitalism to less state capitalism. They seems to have stalled out at further progress toward capitalism, but thankfully dynamic growth industries are mostly capitalist now while utilities and other old industries are still largely state controlled.

Most importantly, the move toward capitalism saved another 60 million from slowly starving to death.

 

Communism? When did the state wither away? When did classes cease to exist there?

 

No.

 

obviously state does not wither away until entire planet is communist and there is no worry about war between states. Class did mostly disappear. Silly liberal utopian scheme that killed 120 million and was most deadly idea in human history. Our Founders saw it coming and made it illegal here. Now communists are trying to copy us having seen the unspeakable evil in communism.

 

Communism has not existed ANYWHERE. And if "the state does not wither away until entire planet is communist", then there is no communism until entire planet is communist.

Again you show you do not know your subject, but that never seems to stop you.

 

but 132 attempts to get to communism have existed and 120 million human souls were slowly starved to death. Shall we set a limit on 200 million dead before we kill anyone who mentions communism as anything other than
the most deadly force in human history?

 

What your own brand of brainwashing is hiding from you is that none of that has anything to do with today, socialism today, socialists today, or Marxists today. Blaming Karl Marx for 120 million deaths is like blaming auto industry engineers for terrorists running cars into crowds of people.

 

American style capitalism and communism are but divergent paths to the same ultimate destination wherein all real access to power and wealth becomes extracted, redistributed and concentrated into the hands of a cabal of aristocrats which is maintained via a system of authoritarianism and illusion.

 

Come on, Fenton. That's not communism. In fact I think you know it is the opposite. And it's a lie perpetrated by those who called themselves "communists" when they weren't. Do you really want to perpetuate their lies? The most harmful thing you could do to them is to tell the truth about them.

 

Or Boeing for 9/11. But Marx' ideas are very scary things; we cannot have the population thinking on their own. It is why slavers never wanted slaves to be able to read for themselves.

 

Look around, make your own mind up. I for one think the same about americans who regard themselves as "capitalists"; they're really not.

 

It's not a matter of opinion! The facts are all there for you to see and understand.

 

Alternative facts?

 

Let's not just throw words around. If you have "alternate facts" or object to some "alternate facts" that are relevant to the conversation, let's deal with them.

What I said was that there are facts that we can list and discuss to determine what we're talking about.

 

Well then perhaps you SHOULD list your "facts".

 

Not you? Oh what the hell. Ok. ...

FACTS:
1. You said communism is going in the same direction as capitalism.

2. The only countries that are referred to in over 95% of the cases of reference to "communist" are those in which a self-declared "communist party" brought about a revolution.

3. The most notable such countries, and the ones mentioned in this thread, are Russia and China.

4. Both those countries began revolutions that were led or instigated by a "Communist Party"

5. Those communist parties were self-described as "Marxist" and guided by the writings of Marx.

6. In the case of Russia, a man maned Lenin applied the writings of Marx to the actual conditions in Russia and the communist party then referred to itself as "Marxist-Leninist" for that reason. Lenin didn't change Marx's ideas; he applied them.

7. Those parties called themselves "communist" not because they wanted to install communism, which cannot be done, but rather because communism was the end-goal as socialism would evolve to it after some 500, 1,000, or maybe 2,000 years.

8. Those parties dedicated themselves to establishing socialism.

9. Marx said that for any country, the economy is the foundation from which everything else, -politics, law, culture, education, etc., -all springs, and all those things arise in service to the economic base.

10. The revolutions led by communist parties made a fatal mistake. They seized political power first with the intention of using that political power to establish socialism -worker control of businesses and industry. But that reversed what Marx taught because it was to say that the political system was the foundation from which the economy would spring.

11. Their effort failed as it failed to change the work life of the workers. It merely substituted government bosses for private bosses and the workers still had to do the bidding of bosses.

12. The governments consolidated power in its own hands and ran industry for profit which the workers had no say in. They had no input on decisions of what to produce, how to produce, where to produce, or what to do with the profits of their production. That was still in the hands of bosses but who were now operating within the bureaucracy of the state. Hence it was state capitalism that resulted, -not socialism.

13. Communism was never even attempted. Hence no country was ever communist.

There are some facts. And you say what?

 

sure it was, every day. management in free countries has the option to give power to workers and workers have power to ask for it, demand it, buy it, and to work better with it but since it is conceptually idiotic it never happened and never worked.

 

No, it's THAT sort of thinking that is idiotic.

 

if it was idiotic you would not be so afraid to say why. What do you learn from your fear?