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What is the true source of rights?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by pjohns, Sep 14, 2017.

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  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No evidence. No records by Egypt. No source of such a story but the bible.
     
    dairyair, Sep 15, 2017
    #26
  2. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Sure it is.
    The only way to keep property is to fight for it or have laws protecting it.
     
    dairyair, Sep 15, 2017
    #27
  3. An Old Guy

    An Old Guy Well-Known Member

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    The true source of rights is people advocating, demanding & fighting for them - if necessary. They are not god given, or "bestowed" or "reluctantly" extended - they are earned and should be cherished.......and not given up to despots and interlopers.
     
    An Old Guy, Sep 15, 2017
    #28
  4. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    So the way you figure it, infants don't have any rights. Right?
     
    yguy, Sep 16, 2017
    #29
  5. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And that makes it fake how?
     
    upside222, Sep 16, 2017
    #30
  6. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Self-defense is a natural right without which the human race would have become extinct as more powerful predators wiped the human race out.

    It is *NOT* might makes right. The concept of "might makes right" is what self-defense is intended to protect against!
     
    upside222, Sep 16, 2017
    #31
  7. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Would it be fair to describe you as both an atheist and an anarchist?
     
    pjohns, Sep 16, 2017
    #32
  8. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    I am not "succumb[ing]" to anything.

    I said merely that "some have described" the rights guaranteed by the Constitution as "negative" rights.

    And I suppose that is true, in a sense: The Constitution does not guarantee outcomes; but guarantees merely that individual citizens shall be free of government intervention in purely personal matters.

    I very much like that.
     
    pjohns, Sep 16, 2017
    #33
  9. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Well, then the authors of the Declaration of Independence must have been badly misguided.

    Is that, essentially, what you believe?
     
    pjohns, Sep 16, 2017
    #34
  10. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Constitution does not guarantee any rights. It only protects us from the government intruding on our individual rights.

    Our rights are guaranteed only by our Creator.

    When you hear someone talk about the Constitution "guaranteeing" us rights, just realize that such a viewpoint is based on rights coming from government and not from the Creator.
     
    upside222, Sep 16, 2017
    #35
  11. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    Where does the US Constitution speak of these?

    I am not suggesting that these matters are not now ensconced in law--or even that they should not be.

    I am just saying that they are not the fruits of the US Constitution.
     
    pjohns, Sep 16, 2017
    #36
  12. pjohns

    pjohns Well-Known Member

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    That is essentially what I just said: The US Constitution guarantees us to be "free of government intervention." (Bold in original)
     
    pjohns, Sep 16, 2017
    #37
  13. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    I can hardly believe you're asking this, but here you go: suffrage is the subject of 15A, 19A and 26A; due process is mentioned explicitly in 5A and 14A, and referred to implicitly in 6A, 7A and A3S2; and the last two also imply the right to access to federal courts in civil cases.

    Now you know better.
     
    yguy, Sep 16, 2017
    #38
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Without usung the constitution as the guiding document we'd have no rights.
    Look at some Islamic countries as proof. Given they claim the very same creator as you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    dairyair, Sep 17, 2017
    #39
  15. sawyer

    sawyer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As of now healthcare is not a right. The question is should it be. We need that debate in society and if society deems it should be a right then we need a constitutional amendment to make it one.
     
    sawyer, Sep 17, 2017
    #40
  16. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

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    Yes, more or less.
     
    GoogleMurrayBookchin, Sep 17, 2017
    #41
  17. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Nah. SCOTUS can declare it a right in one case
     
    Vegas giants, Sep 17, 2017
    #42
  18. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure we would! John Locke described some of our natural rights such as self-defense LONG before the Constitution was written. I would also suggest you go read the Magna Carta which, again, identified some of our natural rights long before the Constitution was written.

    Even the old Code of Hammurabi recognized an individual's right to property and the right to be free of assault from another.

    You are arguing the same viewpoint as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, the Khans of ancient Mongolia, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Castro, etc.

    It is the fascism of the left today that has no god but the state - all power and rights flow from the government. Statism at its finest!
     
    upside222, Sep 17, 2017
    #43
  19. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Odd. You keep listing people telling other people what rights they can have.
    But only if man/people allow and defend them.

    What of your and Islam's creator giving us all the same rights? Why doesn't Islam have the same rights we have in the USA?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
    dairyair, Sep 17, 2017
    #44
  20. An Old Guy

    An Old Guy Well-Known Member

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    How did you ever arrive at that incorrect conclusion?
     
    An Old Guy, Sep 17, 2017
    #45
  21. An Old Guy

    An Old Guy Well-Known Member

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    Of course rights aren't "god given" - what a ridiculous notion....
     
    An Old Guy, Sep 17, 2017
    #46
  22. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Deism isn't theism.
     
    Polydectes, Sep 17, 2017
    #47
  23. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    What if the pursuit of happiness for you means being atheist, satanic, homosexual, materialistic, or worshipping Baal?

    The bible isn't particularly tolerant of that.
     
    Polydectes, Sep 17, 2017
    #48
  24. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've not said *anything* about what rights people *CAN* have. But nice try at misquoting me!

    Those who follow Islam SUPPRESS the natural rights of others. They have the exact same viewpoint *YOU* do -- might makes right.
     
    upside222, Sep 17, 2017
    #49
  25. upside222

    upside222 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where in the Bible does God tell his followers to kill unbelievers? You will find that even in the Old Testament, God says *he* will punish the unbelievers and sinners.
     
    upside222, Sep 17, 2017
    #50
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