What should be done with Abortion Doctors?

Actually no, it will never be a person. However she may love and bond with the fetus and there is nothing wrong with being arbitrary in that fact.

 

Here we go again you putting words into my mouth. The point I am making is you made a choice, whether you regret that choice now is irrelevant, you could make that choice, what you want is to remove the same right you had from every other female, that is hypocritical. The fact that you have (allegedly) had an abortion is completely irrelevant, just because you had a change of mind after the event doesn't give you the right to force others into your guilt.

1. It doesn't say a (*)(*)(*)(*) thing in the bible about abortion, neither does it say anything about a zygote/fetus being an independent sentient person .. This is just a cop out to justify narrow minded thinking.
2. No one I have seen here has denied what life in the womb is .. so another cop out
3. These are your issues, why do you assume that everyone is the same as you were. Under what right do you have to project your failings onto others.
Again you are projecting your own opinions onto someone else, I am not anti-life, I am pro-choice .. but to you there is no difference, that is your opinion and your are entitled to it .. but .. what gives you the right to try and force others to adhere to your opinion.
What defines morals, are you more moral than someone who lives in another country under different laws with a different religion .. if you think so that is the sin of pride. Just because you have a certain way of thinking doesn't automatically mean everyone else is wrong and should change their thinking to suit you.

Oh I get it alright. You claim to have had an abortion, maybe you have maybe you haven't and have you even thought about the fact that any others here who may have actually believe in privacy, it has nothing to do with you or me what they have or have not done.
You are right any person who has had an abortion knows what they have done and guess what some of them are fine with it .. but that doesn't sit with you does it, they are "murderers" in your eyes .. so what makes you different from them if you have had one, are you a murderer? should you be executed for your crime?

By your own admission you are as much a freak as anyone else, you are also a murderer. You only value life until it is expelled from the womb then you don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*), you have put no thought to the consequences .. this is your crusade to make up for what you see as a mistake in your own life.
I don't "champion abortion" I champion the rights of the woman to choose how, where and when her womb should be used, and yes woman should have this power .. it took them so many years to get it and you want to take it away turning them back into "good little house wifes" who only ever do as hubby says.

I get your issues well enough.

 

it only gets a funeral if the mother wants to. if not its thrown out with the rest of the trash? so i'll ask again. how arbitrary is that?

 

It is treated as biohazardous waste or it is given to the woman at her request for burial. You can do the same thing with your pets, get their ashes or let the clinic throw out the body as medical waste. I don't know what else you want me to tell you, these are just the facts.

What is wrong with this being arbitrary anyhow? It's not like it's a law or anything based on arbitrary reasoning.

 

so its only a person worthy of a burial if the mother wants it. if not its trash. i mean why dont we start defining all humans based on weather the mom wants it to be one. no matter what the age is

 

No it is never a person. It is only 'worthy' of burial if the woman wants to bury it, yes. Just like my cat will never be a person but if she dies I would still like to bury her. Get it? Just because we sometimes bury things that lived and we were attached to at one point does not mean it was a person.

There are many good reasons for conferring legal personhood at birth and giving them rights at birth. Number one reason is because birth is the clear cut time for when a neonate is a separate individual that can physically survive on its own (when I say physically survive on it's own I mean it's own organs and other life functions can sustain it's life, it does not require an umbillical cord attached to another human to live).

Another reason is that there is absolutely no conflict of rights between the woman and the child. Another is interest in self-preservation and preventing chaos on society which is one of the main reasons for laws.

 

youre proven wrong though. babies as young as 21 weeks after conception have been known to survive during pre mature births....

 

No it is you who are wrong, the youngest EVER surviving preterm fetus was born at 21 weeks & 5 Days, so no fetus has EVER survived at 21 weeks, and even this baby would not have survived without medical intervention .. even that 21 weeks & 5 days is not accurate as it is not possible to actually know the exact time or date when fertilization occurred which could mean it is as little as 6 days out or as much as 12 days out, this would put the babies birth age at either 22 weeks & 4 days or even 23 weeks & 3 days.

The only preterm born whose exact date of fertilization is known (due to her being an in vitro conception) is Amilia Taylor, born at 21 weeks & 6 days

 

Note the word birth there. After birth the neonate becomes a person with rights, so I really don't know what your point is.

 

so if a baby CAN survive outside on its own.... but just didnt come out because it didnt have a premature birth. that gives the mom the right to kill it? i mean.... wtf.... the baby CAN survive outside on its own... now your saying its not a person? whats to stop someone from saying a 1 month old isnt a person?

i mean wtf.... i never knew somone could be for murdering an innocent child that can survive on its own....

 

so is every human who would have died at one point in their life without medical attention all of a sudden not a human? and deserve to be killed? if so there are billions of real life people who would not be alive right now were it not for medical attention at one point in their life. myself, my dad, all 4 of my grandparents included. so are we not people and not worthy of rights? were does the insanity end man?

 

88% of all abortions are done within 12 weeks. How many fetuses do you know of that have survived outside the womb at 12 weeks? And even so are you saying that it is acceptable to induce women into labor when they walk into a clinic and let them give birth at any time during the pregnancy and see if the fetus lives?

Easy, they've been born. They have no argument. Once you have been born you are a person. It's very clear cut.

You need to stop now because you are correlating my views on abortion with infanticide and they are not the same in the slightest. I do not and will not ever condone infanticide. I believe in right to bodily autonomy and I believe that no human being, person or not, has the right to infringe on another's person's autonomy against their will. That's it. So don't even try and go there.

Pregnancy is a long and risky adventure for some women. One moment everything can be perfectly fine and the next everything is going horribly wrong. Considering the risk of pregnancy to a woman's health and life her well-being should be first and foremost every time because without her you will not even have the fetus. Most abortions are done very early on within the first 12 weeks and at that point there is absolutely no chance of a fetus surviving outside the womb even with medical assistance.

 

it is infanticide.... PERIOD. you are advocating the murder of people who without a doubt have been proven to have a chance to survive "on their own." as you like to say.

so to be clear, you cant run away from this.... from someone who talks about science and facts a lot. your going by feelings here. its not infanticide because you dont 'feel' it is... you are advocating the murder of purely innocent people who have a chance at LIVING ON THEIR OWN... please reconsider your position...we cant afford to kill innocents like this.

 

and again you cherry pick something and fly away from the point .. you stated that a fetus/baby can survive at 21 weeks, I proved you wrong.
Please show me where I say anything about people who would have died with medical attention were not human. I pointed out the fact that the baby (as it was because it had been born) would not have survived without medical intervention .. did I say this was wrong? No, so please go play your stupid games elsewhere.

When you can actually admit to being wrong and retract your 21 week fallacy then perhaps your credibility will be improved.

 

Until you can prove they are "people" then you have no case. Infanticide is the intentional killing of infants .. infant by the way is declared as a baby between 1 month and 12 months .. please go buy a dictionary before you spout rubbish.

 

Actually no it is not. It is feticide. I am advocating the right of the woman to have full medical authority over her own body even during pregnancy and I am advocating that she may have her own uterus suctioned clean if she so chooses to avoid the risks that may ensue when continuing a pregnancy.

No actually, I am going by the rights of the woman, who's rights over her own bodily autonomy should always supercede the fetuses right to live.

We can't afford to strip human beings of their right to control their own bodies just because of the status of their uterus.

 

A lot of us Pro-lifers disagree with the position that abortion doctors should be murdered. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

 

youll survive without abortion, and so will the child (in most cases). same thing could be said with farmers/slave owners and their slaves. while yes taking away slavery would hurt the farmer and his farm. in the end we have to do whats right and give everyone the same basic and equal rights.

 

One murder + x abortions = 1 murder

 

Even a million late-term abortions would not be enough to equal a murder for you. I suspect you probably don't have a problem with partial birth abortions either.

 

A woman can do whatever she wants to her body. The fetus is not the woman's body.

 

Outside of China - what country does a MILLION late term abortions? Even Holland there was only 103 over a five year period in 19 different hospitals
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9141586

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I don;t have a problem with "everyone" having equal rights - just a problem with something that looks like a clump of cells being called an everyone

 

Tell you what Anders, lets find someone who we can attach to you with a manufactured umbilical cord so they can take what they require to survive from you directly without having to eat, drink or breath, you then have to spend 9 months carrying them around at which point you will be subjected to surgery without anesthetic, and then expected to support them for a minimum of 18 years.

 

Let me expand on this statement. The yet-to-be-born baby is NOT part of the woman's body. He ( or she) did not ask to be there. She has her own heart, brain, circulatory system, nervous system, etc..He is temporarily, totally dependent on his mother for survival. Some would say that that is similar to an astronaut being dependent on the space vehicle for survival in space.

 

Look at an ultrasound after just a few weeks of gestation. The development is AMAZING. It certainly is CANNOT be described as a "clump of cells".