What the 2020 future royal navy should be.

I got banned because I told the moderator about this account.

Yes I am what?

 

What do you find hard to take seriously? The the UK could and should have a better and bigger navy than the one projected.

 

You seem to have no grasp as to the realities of the military, how it operates, or why it operates the way it does.

The reason the US has such a large carrier presence should be obvious.

For one, it is a 2 ocean nation. This means that to begin with , any naval requirement would have to be doubled, in order to cover both the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans.

England only has 1 Ocean and 1 major sea to consider.

The US also has multiple International treaties and organizations that it is a part of. To include the UN, NATO, OAS, and others.

Then it also has many Defense treaties with other nations, to include South Korea, Japan, Germany, the UK, Australia, Canada, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Australia, New Zealand, France, the Philippines, and others.

The UK has much less International alliances to be concerned with.

It is not as much that the US is powerful because it built a great Navy. The US had to build the Navy it has because of it's multiple commitments. And the savings that were passed along in the US maintaining this let among other things the nations of Europe allow their militaries to crumble, giving Bread and Butter to it's people, while allowing the Guns to rust.

And it is probably to late to reverse that trend... because there is no use for the UK to build such a Navy. They lack the ships to protect it, the training and doctrine to use it effectively, the home ports at which to bearth it, and the areas to operate it in.

Putting such a Navy in UK ports is stupid for multiple reasons. So where else is it going to be based out of? And how much is it going to cost, both in a larger navy, and the extra logistics and other costs (among them half a dozen new classes of ships) to main tain it?

It is not a ssimple as just building a carrier. You have to change the way the entire Navy operates.

 

I have told you many times what I would use the navy for, defending and controlling the south Atlantic, defending UK territories in the Pacific and help our allies, combating piratsy and drug carring in the Caribbean and off east Africa, defending all the other British overseas territories, Belize and Cyprus, defending the UK from attack, and doing other operations if needed. The UK navy proberly has the 2 biggest area to cover after the US, so the UK needs a bigger navy, not as large as the US, but still huge, over 130 ships and boats.

So you are saying the UK shouldn't be building 2 large carriers then? Instead 4-5 smaller carriers.

I would think £11 billion a year extra would cover the cost of building and maintaining the new fleet, as the main costs like the large carriers and Astute class attack subs have priced in to the budget already. Then the cost of building new ports would be 2 billion a year, the UK has the money, but as your getting at the politicians and most of the public don't have the want for this navy or for the UK to be a world power. But they all fly in the face of facts the navy is and will be overstreached, still having to do all the things I said early.

 

So much for the Royal Navy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15928953

 

Britain's overseas territories will be stripped from it. Hell, it's possible that even the Orangemen will be ousted from Ulster.

 

No, How is this going to happen?

 

The Royal Navy's SSBN fleet is in real trouble too:
http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/wordpress/attack-submarine-force-sinking-below-critical-mass

 

Falklands will be taken by Argentina in time. The Royal Navy doesn't have the ships to retake the Malvinas.

Edit: The Penguins will probably take South Georgia Island from the British.

 

Go on them, 4 Eurofighters would beat your whole airforce.

 

Your aircraft won't be landing on an aircraft carrier prior to 2030. So there is a nineteen year window of opportunity for the Argenines to commit a fait accompli regarding the Malivinas. Britain has no platforms for the aircraft before 2030.

 

We have the Falklands themselves.

 

Yes, you have done just that. Trying to rebuild the British Empire, and coercing other nations by force or threats to join-rejoin the Empire.

Cyprus is an independent republic, and has no connections to the UK at all. So why on earth would you want or even consider having a carrier for them? Unless it was to try and force them to join your Empire?

Belize has been an independent nation for 30 years now. Have they been asking for an increased military presence from their former masters? Is there some kind of foreign insurgency going on there that the rest of the world does not know about? Are they under threat of invasion from their neighbors or another nation?

Every time you talk about things like this, it simply looks like you want to bully smaller nations into rejoining the Empire. And that is not going to happen.

However, I can see one good outcome of your new Navy to the US. They will see the attempted resurgence of a beligerant UK as the attempt to bring back the Empire. One that colonized and enslaved them for centuries. That will cause nations like Venezuela to turn back it's anger at the US, and focus it at the UK instead. SO that might not be a bad thing at all.

 

NO they wont!!

We all know the British forces have been rundown in the last couple of decades, and though the numbers are not there, the quality of the current crop of warships and fighters, is still more of a match for the Argies.
As has been mentioned before, we did lose a few ships in 1982, but they were pretty much stationery targets and there missile systems apart from SeaWolf and SeaDart were obsolete.
2 or 3 Type 45 Destroyers would be able to obliterate any Argie air attack soon after leaving the shores of Argentina, never mind even being able to get close to the Falklands.
Anyway, it would only take the presense of British nuclear subs to be in the area, for the Argie Navy to stay in port (again!).
Remember the UK still has a helicopter carrier and new amphibious ships as well.
To put things into perspective, even with a dimished defence force, the UK can still project to a very limited degree some offensive force......apart from the US and Russia, who else has this capability. Put it this way does anyone think a South American force could sail into the English channel and occupy the Isle of Wight....no chance, it would be a massacre!

ps: Penquins are peaceful people

 

Can we have the Blue boat 'Mushroom'?........at least it will be camouflaged, ie: fitting into the colour scheme of the sea.

I'am surprised that an American made this post, as its in the vain of sarcasm, a British trait.......Do you have any British ancestors????

 

Yes, i saw that headline as well, sounds a bit silly to me, as the first carrier is well into its build now, and is expected to be finished by 2016. Even allowing for more delays, should still be ready by 2020.
Therefore are you saying the Navy will have to wait a further decade for the F-35 in 2030.
This cant be right, ie it means we are still nearly 2 decades away from acquiring the F-35.
Sounds like some people need to get their fingers out.

 

When we could of saved a fortune and just used existing VTOL aircraft and not bothered having to refit the carrier to take the f-35.

 

No, but after a lifetime of watching Monty Python, some of it must have rubbed off on me.

Although thinking back, I did have some ancestors from over there. One of them was even Lord Mayor of London several hundred years ago.

 

The HMS Queen Elizabeth is supposed to enter service in 2020, but won't be FULLY operational until 2030. Its sister ship will be mothballed.

Britain doesn't need a navy any more than Angola needs a navy. No one threatens to invade the UK or attack the UK. Britain has no legitimate overseas interests to protect. Britain would be better advised to acquire fishing boats.

 

Thanks for your reply.

I do realise that the days of the British empire are well and truly over, but its sad that we have run down our forces to the level they are today, despite a relatively decent defence budget.
My only despair is that we should not be in this position, as better judgements by our politicians since the end of the Cold war, would of ensured we had a more balanced stronger military.

But our current goverment hopes the economic crisis blows over by 2015, when we hopefully should be able to spend more on defence.

We bemoan the situation in the UK, but in comparison to our European neighbours we are still in a relatively strong position..............even in the US you are facing big defence cuts from 2013, if the current goverment administration is still in power at the end of next year.

 

Thanks mate.............NOT!

Being an island nation, i think we do need a decent Navy...........anyway we do have overseas interests, like the huge oil fields off the Falkland island.

Fishing boats...............we got plenty of them.........are you suggesting we arm them with 'Sea Viper, Harpoon and Phalanx?

Incidently i was talking to some people recently who are working on the new British carriers, they asked me if i was a spy when i questioned them on some technical details of the carriers!

 

I also believe that the UK needs a more powerfull Navy. However, I do not believe that it needs the monster Navy that the OP and his clone have stated. That is gross overkill, and will be a huge drain on the nation with no benefit.

However, newer and larger ships would be a big improvement that would be justified.

 

The Falklands? There is no such place. However, I have heard of the Malvinas Islands. They belong to Argentina.

 

No I am not trying to rebuild the empire, but reproject UK power, by taking over small places, like Belize and giving them MP's and votes in UK elections.

Cyprus isn't independent, Turkey and Greece still choose what happens and the UK is still the only thing standing in the way of a civil war. Why would I have a carrier defending Cyprus? I would have the a carrier at Gibraltar. I would have a full squadron of 24 jets, 4,000 troops, armoured support and helicopter air support, 2 small patrol boats, 2 corvettes, 1 large patrol boat and a destroyers or frigate. But no carrier.

The Belize government wants the UK military there to help with drugs and other things from Mexico and the Caribbean, there neighbors hostile towards Belize but no longer, mainly because the UK had a military persence.

For all I care Chavez can suck it.

 

Well good for Spanyard.