What would happen if the UK stopped supporting the US?

Given UK MP's failure to support intervention in Syria, I have been thinking about how this could effect the UK's relations with the US.

The British people don't want to intervene in Syria or help the US do so. This is the main reason why Labour didn't want to support it and some Conservative MP's. I am of the view that normal people don't know and aren't interested in foreign policy until something goes wrong and British interests are threatened. Many people have the view that the military's only use is to defend territory and not interests so they don't support interventions. These are the same sort of people that want to leave the EU, which the US doesn't want. However everybody wants to be in NATO because it's got something to do with defending British territory. Much of what I hear people say for why they don't want to join the US operation against Syria is anti-American.

How could this effect UK-US relations in the coming years if the UK stops supporting US operations, leaves the EU and becomes much more open about being anti-American?

 

I doesn't matter much. The UK is irrelevent in todays world. It is broke and nearly overrun by low iq immigration. Nobody will miss you when you're gone.

P.s.: you can take your royal (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) back. We're tired of paying for her "visit".

 

Which country are you from?

It matters to the UK, which is what I am talking about. I wouldn't say irrelevent, but no more relevent than other medium sized Europe countries like France, Italy or Germany.

Well I agree with that we have a huge deficit and loads of poor Eastern European immigrants with bad education. However we can turn it around, it would just need someone to make the case against it. Peter Hitchens try's but he is older and people normally just make fun of him. People may not miss the British ideals and culture when it's gone, but they will remember it.

Ok I want to dispand the Commonwealth and I hate the Royal Family, you shouldn't have to pay for it either.

 

I'm Canadian.

The uk star fell with the end of WW2. Without your empire to give you the needed raw materials and labors you have no hope of ever nearing the top of the chart again. Your situation is like that of Japan. You'll still be a member of the G8 and relevant on the economic front, at least for a while, but on the military front you are sliding toward the bottom of the scale. You just don't have the mean to build big fleets of ships or wings of planes.

Even your nuclear forces are on the way out and dependent on other for its raw ressources.
Both the uk and france are dropping out of the race. Maybe it's time for those two country to ask Japan and Germany how to live in a post superpower era.

 

Thought so.

Well no the star fell when the Attlee government was voted into power. By the End of WW2 parts of the empire were a drain on resources like India and most of the African territories. However the Gulf countries, Cyprus, Malta, Caribbean territories, Hong Kong, Singapore and so on weren't a drain on resources, the territories and ports in strategic parts of the world for trade. However the Empire wasn't the same after Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa left in 1933 I think? These were the best parts of the Empire outside Britain with small populations and huge amounts of resources, plus they were majority English speaking and Protestant. The real problem is the Republic of Ireland, it is an external threat to the UK. With the IRA, Euro, EU, not in NATO and so on. If Ireland was to some how leave the EU and rejoin the UK, it would mean the UK is once again the most power country in central and western Europe and able to project power without fear of internal problems. We have the means to build a larger navy, air force and marines, but size doesn't matter, what capabilities you have matters. The UK's current fleet if you can even call it a fleet is rubbish, that is without question, apart from the ASW part which is still top class from the Cold War. The RAF is highly skilled, but has huge capability caps. The army doesn't really have any capability caps, but is far to small for any continental operations. The Royal Marines are to small and have huge capability caps. However the UK has the means if your talking about money and technology, as does Japan to build a larger fleet, army and air force, it just doesn't have the political will to do so because most people would rather have the NHS, Welfare and Pensions than 85,000 ton aircraft carriers, 150,00 regular's in the army and air superiority fighters.

We are getting 4 new submarines, but cutting the number of missiles and warheads to save money. We and the US share missiles yes.

Never, when you have been as powerful as Britain was it doesn't leave your system that easily, Germany and Japan only has a taste of it for a few years. Britain had it for over 100 years. We will strive to be a "world player" no matter what. To be honest I don't really care about that, I just want a united British Isles and a strong military for Britain to defend it's interests and it's territory.

I must thank you as a Canadian for saving the UK in WW2 and say sorry for selling you some useless submarines.

 

Yeah we're sorry too... About the subs. We really must stop trusting you when it comes to sea hardware. Too bad we're a nuke free zone because we could have bought better subs from the USA.

And no, even if you wish it really hard even with the help of ireland, you'll never be relevant militarily again.
You are broke and so is Ireland! Leaving the EU will make matters even worst since it will be seen as a dumb oportunistic move by those who are your principal trading partners. You're not even the major entry port in europe anymore Antwerp is! Beside european nation, no one buys your goods. Hell i'm trying really hard to find something made in the uk around here and we are part of the commonwealth!

You have rising cost of living, scary unemployment numbers, decrepit infrastructures, rising criminality and a near total breakdown of your immigration policy... And you wan't a superpower class navy and armed forces... And you want this by thumbing your nose at your major trading partners... Yeah it could happen... Not!

 

Or you could have got conventional submarines from Japan, Germany or Sweden, we have never been good at conventional powered submarines.

Well what capabilities would the UK need to be a relevant military power? I am talking about being the most powerful country is Western and Central Europe, being able to defeat the Russian navy in the North Sea and Mediterranean, what would the UK need to be able to do that?

No we aren't broke we are in a lot of debt and have about a 10% deficit and pver £40 billion interest on the debt to pay each year and rising, but we can cut in other area's to bring the deficit down. However the people don't want to cut the NHS, Education or Welfare that amounts to over £300 billion of spending. The 40% privatisation I want to do in the NHS would get rid of about 80% of the deficit, then futher cuts from welfare and foreign aid would mean it's gone and we have a surplus to pay the debt down and future borrowing is cheaper until the debt is cleared, so the interest payments on the debt go down. However cutting welfare and NHS would lead to an increase in crime and about 300,000 more people without a job. If we leave the EU in this time it would be hundreds of thousands more people without work as foreign companies leave the UK for the European common market, so to get the deficit down and increase the UK's power I would mean about 1 million people unemployed if not more within 2-3 years. However the immigrantion problem would be gone, the debt would be on the way down, we could have a free trade zone with Ireland, Norway and Iceland. I would be bloody hard to say the least, but within 5 years things would be better and the UK would be able to increase defence spending and hopefully the UK's largest trading partner Ireland would be once again part of the UK. If your looking for something built in the UK look no futher than your new 155 mm guns built in Borrow by BAE.

Yes cost of living is increasing, but wages are going down so that means more growth and exports which will turn it around. I am the only unemployed person in my family and that's only because I have enough money to survive on, so where I live unemployment isn't a problem. Well the road outside my house needs redone and the bridge near my house is over 100 years old. There is no crime around where I live. Can you explain what you mean by decrepit infrastructures and rising criminality?

 

We bought a lousy 37 unit of the M777 and the only reason we did so was to have an easy to airlift with chopper, artillery piece in Afghanistan.

You won't be able to function if the rest of europe throw tarrifs at you for leaving the EU.

I feel bad that you are too young to have known the glory of your nation, but you will have to accept the fact that it's a thing of the past and that you will just be another ordinary country, like belgium, like spain, like italia, like japan, like austria, who were all at one time great but are now just like the rest.

You don't have neither the material and natural ressources, you never really had them in the first place your colony did, neither do you have the financial mean and to top it off, your demographic renewal come mostly from immigration and those aren't really lining up at the recrutment office and have no interest in recreating your racist based empire.

Also, you want to take on russia??? Have you look at the size of russia compared to the uk? This isn't WW2 anymore. Your navy is barely adequate as it is and would be swamped by sheer number of units. You would be blockaded and this time we wouldn't come to your aid. You are an island. Russia has ports on both side of her, half of them out of your reach while they can strike at you and blokade you easily. They also have more planes, more tank and more soldiers than you do.

You are either really young and only reading stats in military encyclopedia and think that only this matter or you arenot thinking about this straight.

Quantity has a quality of its own and as demonstrated in WW2, it often trumps the technological edge.

 

It looks as if the US is dissing the UK and cuddling up to France so that could be a longer-term issue. I think it's sensible for the UK to keep out of this, I wish Australia had done too but that's not the topic at hand. In the future I think relations between the US and the UK will cool a bit and possibly even get more than cool. But the UK has its future with Europe, not the US and it's entirely possible that the military links with Europe will become stronger.

 

Still the M777 is something built in Britain.

Yes I think you are right short term and the main thing would be regulations from the EU for our goods, which is still a problem inside the EU. However while leaving the EU there would be a negotiation and the tarrifs could be removed, if not in time companies would adjust. You seem to think I am saying it would be all rainbows and lollipops from day one, it would be a long hard slag out side the EU, but we would have more power and control.

I don't feel bad about it, I feel down right sick about it. Why couldn't I have been born 100 years ago for crying out loud. Would John Churchill just accept that the French had a bigger army at Blenheim and give in?

Does French, Germany, Italy or Spain have the natural resources and materials? Currently the UK economy is small and weak because it is to public sector dominated apart from the South East and London, oh and parts of Eastern Scotland. The empire wasn't race based, but based on the Protestant religion to destroy the power of the Catholic church in the British Isles, it's didn't work very well to say the least. The only thing keeping our demographics under control is the British families moving to the Commonwealth.

No I don't want to take on Russia at all. I want to have the most powerful navy in the North Sea and Mediterranean, as a power base from where Britain can project power. Have you looked at the crap Russian economic based around resources or the shrinking Russian population? I am not talking about currently, I am talking about 20 years from now once the UK's economy has become more private sector after leaving the EU, so current Russian numbers don't really mean anything.

No I think doctorine, command and control and equipment matters more than stats. Also I think that if you know your enemy has a huge coastline to defend and it needs to split it's forces you only need to defeat half your enemy to win the war. I'm thinking fine, I want to increase Britain's power and control over it's own affairs away from foreign powers, like the EU, US or Catholic Church, the UK is currently in not position to do so though. Everything you say is correct.

So can you tell me a war where the winner had worse doctorine, C&C and equipment, but won the shear numbers?

 

What would happen if the UK stopped supporting the US?

nothing. the UK is no longer a world power but a tool for islam

 

Yeah Sarkozy helped US-French relations no end and the French are more willing to do what's needed to protect there interests than the British as we see in West Africa. I support taking Assad's chemical weapons, but no pointless TLAM strikes like Obama is talking about. I think for year the British government has been talking about how much we need the US and the US has been talking about how much they don't need the UK, so the UK has been like a sheep dog following the farmer, yeah it's all good when the US it telling the UK what to do in the field, but as soon as the dog trys to get into the house the farmer shuts the door in it's face and shouts at it, then the dog runs away with it's tail between it's legs. However I think the UK is seeing the US as a weakening power and the EU as a failure, so it will now try and breakout doing it's own thing.

 

Considering we have a Protestant state church, how is the UK and Islamic tool?

So what would the US do if the UK left the EU and stopped supporting US military operations, what would the UK lose?

 

Its an interesting subject and one worth considering as demographics continue to change. Why would European Muslims, blacks and Asians want to fight America's wars, same goes the other way. When we no longer have anything in common who will be our allies? I dont think thats a huge part in this decision but its not hard to see public opinion being much harder to win over time.

 

I agree about the Muslims, but blacks are more effected by African American culture and Asians are normally better off than other immigrant groups. Most people don't want to help the US in Syria because they are not interested in Syria, they have less understand of the strategic and geo-political situation than I do, so they don't support it. I am the only person in my whole family that supports helping the US with Syria.

 

We don't need the EU. If anything they need us.

That never really mattered. Sovereignty of overseas territories was not a prerequisite to British commercial enterprise both when we had an empire and after it.

Well that is one of the major reasons we want to leave the EU.

The British empire was not based upon racism. Nor are we interested in building another one due to that fact that the world has changed to the point where such an idea would be impossible.

Well actually quite a few countries buy British. We are the premier producers of oil and gas supplies for the industry for example.
Also the commonwealth is not a trade league. So what exactly are you expecting?
It's also less likely due the fact that manufacturer can transfer to S.E.A. for production. The reason why it's not done so much in the west is because the cost of production would be too high owing to the high GDP per capita.

 

Islam is burning church's and killing Christians. if you don't know what their doing in the UK well.......salute

 

I am sorry, don't want to screw your hilarious discussion, but I am just untolerant SOB to brainwashed people.
List of countries by GDP (PPP)

by the World Bank (2005–2012)
Rank Country GDP(PPP)bn $
5 Russia 3,373

Agriculture, forestry, fishing - 3.6%
Mining and quarrying - 9.1%
Manufacturing industry - 13.6%
Production and distribution of electricity, gas and water - 3.2%
Construction - 5.5%
Trade - 16.2%
Transport and communications - 7.5%
Education and health care - 5.7%
Finance and Services - 14.0%
Public administration and military security - 5.0%
Taxes on products - 25.1%

And here you go, another b1tch-slap from reality:

 

Where's your evidence?

 

Good post. Well done on putting me in my place.

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So they can do all that and still not gain any power. I mean listen I would be happy to agree with you, but you are wrong.

 

During a particularly difficult trade dispute between Australia and the US, the senior Bush was asked how he thought the situation would affect the relationship between the two countries. He said friends will argue disagree, maybe even fight, but at the end of the day, the two friends remember the countless things they still agree on, not the occasional thing that brings friction

 

The American people don't want to intervene in Syria either. Polling has consistently shown this. Frankly, I would be surprised if Obama got any sort of Congressional authorization.

I don't think this will really hurt US-UK relations though. Cameron took some political risk to support an attack on Syria. Hey he did his best and lost the vote. However it could cause Cameron to be more personally wary of jumping in bed with the US too quickly. The fact that Obama about faced on the Syria mission is bound to scare off potential allies. Why take political risks to support US policies if President Jarrett er I mean Obama will just change his mind? Obama made himself look amateurish this week by doing that about face on his own policy.

As for me, I can't see any advantage to US national security or holding up international "norms" against the use of chemical weapons as detailed here. If the proposed mission was actually going to take out Assad's CW capabilities, I might feel differently, but just knocking out a few command and control centers will only make Assad look stronger when he shakes his fist at us after a US attack, and then we do nothing.

 

I agree with much of what you say. However I think the vote will hurt the UK in eyes of the US government. They always expect UK support in any action in Syria since the UK has the backing up the US position throughout. Now when the time comes to act the UK is nowhere to be seen, it mean the UK government look weak and stupid to the US and rest of the world. Needless to say Putin is having a fielday over this. I think the MP were wreckless to vote against foreign policy is about strategic interests, not democracy as most people don't care about foreign policy and see the whole thing as the USA's doing so they should do it without us. Now don't get me wrong I don't care about the Syrians and I don't want to help them, but Obama had a red line which has been supported by the UK government to stop Assad using chemical weapons, we must support the US in this.

 

The UK "owed one" to the US for the logistical support the US gave Britain in the Falkland Islands War. Perhaps the Brits feel their contribution to the fraudulent war in Iraq erased that debt.

 

The Balkans, Afghanistan, Iran, Afghanistan again, Iraq again, Libya. I think we don't owe the US anything in terms of support for military operations. I can always bring up Suez and it blows the claims the UK owes the US anything right out the water.