Who are more moral, Muslims or modern Secular Humanists?

Which do Muslims prefer (“a” or “b”)?:
a. Modern Secular Humanist's hope for the world: Jews (and others of course) are legally treated as equals to Muslims, and we have a peaceful world where no Muslim ever kills any Jew ever again.
OR
b. Mohammad’s hope for the world: Jews are not treated as equals (as per Qur’an 9:29), and Mohammad’s violent prophecy comes true as Muslims kill plenty of Jews: “The time of Resurrection [THIS IS A GOOD THING TO MUSLIMS] will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!'" Sahih Muslim, Book 41, Number 6985

Is it "a" or "b"?


(PS Judaism is a warped belief system, too.)

 

So if Batman and Iron man were to have a fight.......who would win?

 

Cute, but are you saying you don't know which is more moral? That would be incredible if that's what you were implying. Can I surmise that you APPROVE of Mohammad saying that Muslims will have to kill the Jews before that good thing can happen? Or do you whole-heartedly condemn Mohammad for that?

 

im sure some believe one and some the other

 

No think the question you ask has about as much worth as debating Batman and Iron man having a fight - could probably throw in how long is a piece string to as a real stumper

 

Morality is subjective, I would suggest you pick a term that does not change with individual belief and personal understanding.


Actually....I'll help you out here, and rephrase your question to accurately state your position:

Are all Muslims dirty, stinky, nasty, savages who disrespect the sweet smelling and wonderful chosen children of God?

 

So clearly you're saying that some of your Muslim friends are no better than HITLER , as that passage from Mohammad (who I bet you they'd never condemn - no matter how sick he was) is basically an open invitation to Jewish Genocide.

 

You clearly don't understand the differences between Dawkins (or Harris, etc.) and Muslims.
Religions are so sick that, for example, a Christian is such a lousy parent that they'll give their young child a book that says, in multiple places (the Bible) to KILL THEM upon the 4% chance that they someday turn out gay. Now THAT'S poor parenting. A better way is to, ok, give the kid the Bible, but to tell the kid point blank "this book is right in a lot of places and it's WRONG in a lot of places". They are too fearful to be that good of a parent. Intellectual cowards.

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I'm not Jewish, and despise the Jewish texts as well.

 

Incredible. What part of treating people as equals under the law, and also not killing them en masse, are you confused about!? Incredible.
You won't answer the question because you believe it's "insensitive" to call out Muslims for their Hitler-like genocidal views, don't you?

More filth from the invisible sky god:
Jews are the most hateful towards Muslims: "Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant."
Qur'an 5:82

 

Since I have known many Muslims and many Secular Humanists i would say that of all the ones I have known, they are all more moral than anyone who would try to impugn either group for their beliefs.

The Muslims I have known were good people with good morals and were more 'moral' than many non-Muslims I have known.

 

I don't remember any of my muslim friends subscribing to that idea.

 

So ask them if Mohammad was wrong when he said this, and see what they say (I KNOW what they will say):
“The time of Resurrection [THIS IS A GOOD THING TO MUSLIMS] will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: 0 Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!'" Sahih Muslim, Book 41, Number 6985"

They won't say he was wrong, because like Christians, they can't accept reality (such as Jesus accepting slavery in multiple NT passages.)

Will they say the Mohammad was wrong, for today (he's the best role model for all time, remember), when he said that a Muslim woman was forbidden to marry a non-Muslim man? (Qur'an 2:221.) I'd bet you a million dollars they are too intellectually impotent to say that.
Mohammad made that proclamation because it would, effectively, weaken his army, and he was a warlord.

 

Your comparing Muslims to Humanists? One of these things just doesn't belong here.

 

personally I don't give a crap what believers in fairy tales say about their fairygodfathers. its the way they actually live their lives that concerns me.

 

Morality is subjective and people are diverse. Comparing Islam to Secular Humanists is like comparing 1000 tomatoes to 1000 potatoes... not every tomato or potato is the same. Like any theology or philosophy, Islam and Secular Humanists views are as diverse as their practitioners.

 

Exactly.

This is one persons rant against those who believe in God.

I may not agree with what the Bible says, or what the Koran says, or what the Book of Mormon says- but I don't waste my time judging people based upon the myths of their religion.

I meet people and judge them based upon how they treat me, how they treat others and how they treat themselves, and leave what they believe to be between them and their god.

 

Here's the problem: I don't see anything moral about your "b". To me a moral Muslim would be somebody that treats everybody as equals regardless of what their religion suggests. I guess in my opinion, secularism is probably the most moral system and drags along religions from their outdated systems of ethics. So... "a".

 

One is far far more moral than the other, I argue:

Beating wives (Quran 4:34): one is for it, one is against it.

Slavery (many times in the Quran and BuyBull): one is immoral and for it, one is more moral against decidedly against it.

Equal treatment: one is against it (Q 2:221, and chapter 4 a lot), and one is decidedly for it.

Jihad against the Infidel: one is for it (and bankrupting America), and one is against it.

Hatred of Jews: one is REALLY REALL FOR IT, and one is against it.

Science: one fears it, and one promotes it.

Democracy: one text is clueless about it (Quran and BuyBull), and one clearly is FOR it (modern Secular Humanism.)


Please don't insult our intelligence by saying it's subjective and we're really all that diverse. Show me one Muslim (I could show you thousands of Secular Humanists - if we cared to look) who will condemn Mohammad for being a slave owner.

 

I been saying that here for years. You are the first person on the forum that I have seen that believes that morality is subjective. I think so much strife exists because people see morality as objective... and then try to force feed their beliefs to everyone around them.

 

I appreciate that you choose "a".
But, you'd be as deluded as our friends who have an imaginary friend ("Jesus", "Allah", "bigfoot", etc.) if you believed that *MUSLIMS* would choose "a" however. Challenge me. Show me Muslims who do.

 

When push comes to shove, Muslims will side with their co-religionists, and when forced to take sides (we're seeing that start to develop in Europe, etc.) they will choose SHARIA over tolerant secular humanism, and your grandchildren will likely get WHIPPED for simply having, say, sex outside of wedlock, which happens when Sharia takes over. Mohammad was a pathetic shell of a human being (as most pedophile/torturer/murderer/bandit/gay-haters/Jew-haters/totalitarian-ruler types of folks are.)

 

The Quran like the Bible is wide open to interpretation. You seem to have an interpretation of the Quran that perhaps you think is representative of all Islam. Do you see the Bible in the same objective light? As for people hating Jews, there are Christians out there that hate Jews. Bias knows no boundaries.

 

but that's no fun!! generalizations are soooooooooooo much easier

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well sharia aint taking over where I live so I don't give a damn.

 

Make that two people then, morality is 100% subjective.

 

Not my quote but repeating it for emphasis

personally I don't give a crap what believers in fairy tales say about their fairygodfathers. its the way they actually live their lives that concerns me.