Who should not own a gun?

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Nov 3, 2012.

?

Who should not own a gun

  1. everyone has a right to own a gun

    8 vote(s)
    13.8%
  2. people with a serious mental illness

    38 vote(s)
    65.5%
  3. those with criminal history

    31 vote(s)
    53.4%
  4. Elderly with early dementia

    19 vote(s)
    32.8%
  5. Physical disability i.e. poor eyesight, severe tremor

    10 vote(s)
    17.2%
  6. Children under 17

    24 vote(s)
    41.4%
  7. Other

    21 vote(s)
    36.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    Stepping out in front of trains is the second most popular form of suicide where I live, mostly popular with teens who cannot get access to any bridges, and trains run almost everywhere.
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They should ban them!
     
  3. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    Some people have proved by their repeated criminal acts that they should be locked up forever, until they die there. Obviously Scandinavia does not believe it. But other nations do. And that relegates the gun issue for these people as moot.
     
  4. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    The lastes federal Supreme Court ruling on this draws the various lines about what the states may control and what they may not.

    Based on this most recent ruling, the states and the DC may not limit access to any handgun.

    They may regulate public possession however, according to this court, which has been the most pro-gun court the nation has ever seen, with 5 of its 9 justices agreeing this way, while 4 of them completely ignor the 2nd Amendment.

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And yet can we afford to all be in an armed escalation?

    The firearm homicide rate in the USA is horrendous - the only countries that outstrip you are South Africa and war zones
     
  6. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And there should be nets maybe? Or a higher bloody rail with barbed wire!!

    Think on this statistic - 75% of para suicides (that are the ones that fail to die) never do it again repeaters are a small minority of parasuicides so, if we can save them then we have someone who will in all probability live a long life

    But importantly it is the impact on YOUTH suicide that is the most telling

    http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/index.html

    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046149.htm
     
  7. stjames1_53

    stjames1_53 Banned

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    sure, why not? it would put us all on the same playing field.
    .....and?
     
  8. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    Every different group has their preferred method of suicide.

    The best cure for depression is a cup of hot coffee and a friend to listen to your problems.

    Suicide has nothing at all to do with guns.

    Guns are merely the victims of them sometimes, and thus get blamed.
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yes we will not stop suicide but we CAN reduce the death rate - especially for young suicides

    http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=705d5df4-055b-f1ec-3f66462866fcb4e6

    It is the incomplete suicides that should be targeted - the "para suicides" and unfortunately a gun is more likely to turn an "attempt" into a "success" than many other methods. Yes there will always be people who will jump in front of trains but these are a minority - the majority in the USA are by firearms
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The Harvard research says something different - there is a correlation (and I admit correlation does not equal causation) between gun ownership and a higher rate of suicide - read the link
     
  11. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    You are at least correct that correlation does not equal causation.

    People who are so emotionally shattered that they intend to commit suicide will pull it off no matter what you take away from them.

    Like I said, there are plenty of trains and bridges everywhere.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No they won't - trust me I am a health professional and have dealt with more parasuicides than you have had hot lunches

    A great number of suicides are impulsive and if there is a means at hand - especially one that is glamorised then that is what will be used
     
  13. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    Using a gun is actually really messy. I cannot even imagine it. And I own several.

    Easiest way is tie a plastic bag over your head, and then slip your hands into a self tightening noose behind your back so that you cannot change your mind.

    Leave guns out of it.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately that is not how a suicidal person thinks. Most commonly it is associated with drugs and or alcohol and pulling a gun trigger is easier. As I have said there is a "glamour" associated with guns - much the same as there is with your bridge
     
  15. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    I've dealt with 3 who were on the cusp. In each case they just needed to talk it through. In each case they recovered.

    One of them was a shooter, and a lady. I took her bullets away from her, but not her gun. I let her keep that.

    She needed to understand that her x-hubbie was the cause of her torment, and that love is like Pat Benatar said a battlefield.

    And a bullet was not going to solve anything.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    good for you - mostly because I work in ICU I see the fails and please believe me when I say that when it comes to guns the successful ones were the lucky ones.

    Less lucky were the ones who hesitated at the temple jerked forward and shot out their own eyes

    Or the kid who put the shotgun under his chin and blew out his lower jaw, upper jaw upper lip and nose

    Yes, I remember what it was like BEFORE the gun buyback
     
  17. CallSignShoobeeFMFPac

    CallSignShoobeeFMFPac New Member

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    My sister was an ICU nurse for the first few years of her nursing career.

    Now she works in a clinic, her hours are more regular, and her job is more sane.

    Try to get out of ICU work as soon as you can so you will stay sane.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Too late mate!!
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Basic error! The analysis into suicide ultimately tests whether guns have perfect substitutes (i.e. its just a switch in preferred suicide method). That hypothesis is soundly rejected, ensuring that- for suicide- guns require a separate analysis
     
  20. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    Unfortunately your wrong. When guns are banned, there is a simultaneous increase in suicide by rope and bridge. In Germany it is sluiced by car. They are depressed, not dumb. Gun control does not cure depression.
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    The empirical evidence shows that the perfect substitute hypothesis can be rejected. Sorry chum, but you're on a loser again
     
  22. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    Medical research has found that gun control does not cure depression. Further public policy analysis rejects your argument.
     
  23. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Empirical analysis shows that guns do not have perfect substitutes. The only debate is 'why' (e.g. the analysis linking it to young males and alcohol abuse). Again, you only show that you haven't perused the available literature
     
  24. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The empirical evidence (from your favorite guy) shows that handgun licensing increases suicide by other methods.
     
  25. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Come on, don't be shy. Offer a reference in support of your point!
     

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