Why China is Rising and the US is Declining

There’s a myth that’s been doing the rounds for decades that China is communist. It certainly has a communist party, but then again North Korea also has the word ‘democratic’ in its title, but it’s not.

To be communist you would need to abandon the competitiveness of capitalism and let the state hold the means and modes of production and that’s not happening in China.

In reality, China is a vast police state, but arguably even more capitalist than the US. In exchange for giving up some individual freedoms and the endless quest for more based on greed, you get a booming economy and hundreds of millions lifted out of poverty.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/p...port-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

Yes, I’m aware of the mass-media propaganda, but having recently lived and worked in China for a number of years there’s another side to it.

China v US​

In China, I typically paid between five to eight percent tax, which was negotiable. No US state taxes or European value added tax (VAT). Basic essentials such as housing, food and transport are dirt cheap because they’re subsidized and available to all. China also has universal health care. As people become wealthier they buy computers, cars, houses and western products which are very expensive high tax products and where the subsidies come from. They’re regarded as non-essential items.

Conversely, in the US all prices are fixed according to supply and demand, which leaves whole sections of society unable to compete producing the current millions of have nots. Unrestrained capitalism promotes the idea that it’s their fault they’re in poverty and they’re seen as losers. As the cost of living rises with inflation, the only solution is throwing more money into a bottomless pit of welfare checks and stimuluses’.

The US bad news​

The official US poverty rate in 2020 was 11.4% (crsreports.congress.gov) and the middle class has shrunk to 50% in 2021 (Pew Research Center).

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/n...avirus-is-piling-on-even-more-debt-2020-06-03

The Chinese way out​

China puts people before individual profit in a system which doesn’t glorify people such as Bezos, Musk and Hillary (all under investigation for fraud) and hold them up as icons of success.

Despite western sanctions, the Chinese system does work and why they became a major economic power in 30 years after the death of Mao. The freedom to pursue individual gain by a minority of millionaires/billionaires at the expense of society, or a reigning in of greed to put society first. I suppose it all depends on ones priorities.

 

The U.S. is declining because it is what happens to all power centers when they start coasting on past progress. China is where the U.S. was 150 years ago on the way up. The Chinese system is not superior to ours. It is just younger and closer to the the beginning of the cycle.

We stopped doing what was in our best interests decades ago. We have replaced launching great manufacturing ventures with concern over which rest rooms people should use. How could it be any more obvious? China will get to the same place but not in our lifetimes.

 

The US is declining because its industrial revolution is over, it’s now a consumer society and someone else stepped in to take its place. Previously England went the same way and the US took over. But yes, one day China too will fade and the cycle will continue.

 

Interesting...
It's the republican party that accuses any government spending on subsidizing the poor communist, but subsidizing big oils ok in their eyes.

I guess the only problem now is that pesky constitution and what role government plays in assisting our nations progress. I'm not in favor of abandoning it personally.

 

You've been watching to many "alternative-facts", the truth is These United States are BEST in the world, economically, militarily and government; and the BEST POISED for SUCCESS in the coming decades ... IF we can just stop our foolish infighting.

 

Global corps and their influence on governments was the catalyst for China and India's development subsidized by the West consumers. The point was to create their vast populations into a consumer middle class society, we are seeing it happen. Money is the God on earth and it was done on the backs of existing developed nations.

 

China as all totalatarian governments is not divided. The United States by choice is.
"A house divided against itself cannot stand" - A. Lincoln

 

Just a reminder as liberals pile on in other threads that I don’t do partisan politics. I don’t do moral relativism either (that there is no right or wrong) and believe that a country can’t be run as a business. People are not ‘things’ to be discarded on a whim or abandoned if they’re no longer viably profitable.

I must confess that coming from the UK I have a little streak of socialism running through me. I check every morning for horns on my head and reds under my bed, but so far I’ve found nothing.

I believe we have the best universal health system in the world which as I get older I’m very grateful for. It’s not free, I spent decades paying into it. I also believe in restrained capitalism so that we don’t drift into corporate fascism and I put people before profit. If I have more money than you (which I probably haven’t), it doesn’t necessarily make me a better person and just like you, I lose it anyway when I die. Unlike the majority, I have no envy or even respect for the billionaire vultures who are regarded as icons of success in the US.

I believe that if I pay exorbitant taxes all my life I also want something out of it, not just to fund a comfortable lifestyle for those that sit in high offices and like to listen to their own voices. When I’m old or sick look after me you b*******!

 

I've lived in the west and in China. I've seen both sides.

 

/e shrug. Doesn't seem you were wearing your glasses.

 

China produced cheap and the western world bought their products. Free markets?

 

Right! Only when the sun's up or it's night time.

 

Whatever is said, one of two sides is going to start howling.

 

You've, very quickly, showm what cloth you're cut from. I don't recognize your beacon on the hill bullshit, bacon maybe.

 

Which explains nothing and is just a throw away comment.

 

Cut from the finest non-partisan cloth. You keep listening to Fox or CNN and I'll tell you how the world works.

 

First we cut through the usual one liner nonsense and then perhaps we get some discussion.

 

Sonny, I've been around the block, I don't need you to tell me anything.

 

I love it when people call me ‘sonny’ at my age. There is always something to learn from those who really have been round the block as opposed to those have never left the US and get their beliefs from the mass media. Otherwise you wouldn’t be engaging now, would you? Now go away, have a think about the op and come back to discuss the topic, not the poster. There's a good boy.

 

Go around some other blocks and then comparing them will become automatic.

 

Human resource is very cheap in China. Communists give a sh*t about human rights.
Instead, we in the west can't fool our lower class workers in a way that Commies always do. So we can't misuse them the Chines way.
Commies remain strong as long as their victims don't realize the betrayal.

 

Fair enough. On the surface politically I don't see anything I disagree with, unless you were talking about our, the USA healthcare...it's garbage. Even with full coverage wait times are just as long as Canada's, and subpar.
Rent subsidies could be a thing I agree with, under conditions squatters can be removed, and roommates assigned. That would give motivation to decline such assistance in pursuit of prosperity. I'm no city engineer or constitutional specialist (aka lawyer) though so what do I know.

I also would love to see our society put people before profit.

 

When people say salaries are low in China they don’t mention that the cost of living is often a third of what it is in the west. I could travel anywhere in the city limits on public transport (and the cities are huge) for a standard ¥1 (15 cents) and a decent café meal would set me back around ¥25 ($3.7).

I don’t know if you’re aware but millions in the US can’t even survive on their salaries or afford housing.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/working-poor/2018/home.htm

I’m not saying that there aren’t sweatshops in China, of course there are, but when they’re discovered the owners are heavily punished.

 

It could probably never happen in the US. Obamacare was just tinkering round the edges. If there’s a profit to be made in the US someone somewhere will be making it. The chances of people voting out private care and the corporate pharmaceuticals is zero, but it's a dream to bear in mind. The military and industrial complexes run America.

 

Well then Sonny, If you love it Sonny, I'll call you Sonny because if there's one thing I can't stand, right after running down my beloved Country, is someone that sets themselves up as an expert when they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Sonny.

I guess you must be old as dirt so 15 minutes is precious, but listen to that before you bad mouth the USA. Sonny.