Why is socialism becoming increasingly popular in the United States?

Quote; l’m kinda surprised the number isn’t higher”

IMO, said 17% would significantly increase if Sanders and Cortez were to actively campaign for a publicly funded “Medicare for all”, because the opposition would label their health related objective as socialism.

 

And it would be in one sense of the word, and it would be good. Socialism isn't all bad, just as capitalism isn't all bad. You need a mix of the two for a functioning and thriving society.

Even most hard core conservatives recognize this (just wanting a different balance than liberals). They want to keep things like public grade schools, public transit (which is heavily subsidized and needs to be to be viable and keep traffic moving for those who drive cars), public roads, the fire department and police department, military etc. They just don't like the word Socialism.

As for free tuition to colleges, it makes sense if the programs make sense and benefit society. You want the best and brightest getting the education to become future doctors, engineers, etc, regardless of if they are born into money.

 

LOL. Many democrats have called themselves socialists. Are they liars?

 

Democrats won't be happy until they turn us into Venezuela. With the number of Venezuelans crossing our southern border every day for a better life, you'd think the left would get a clue but it just goes over their heads.

 

One compromise on the student debt and tuition cost issue would be to not make it free, but make it non-profit and regulate what schools can spend the money on. It is absolutely ridiculous how expensive tuitions have gotten and how much of that money doesn't go to the education of the students. It could be much much less expensive and still high quality for the students.

 

Well, I'm not going to give you any flak. I know you're a socialist and I respect the fact that you're open and honest about that, unlike many socialists who like to hide behind the "progressive" facade.

'

Thanks for the response. While our ideological and political views are antithetical to one another, this is the best and most thoughtful response that I've received out of any and all of the Lefties here so far.

Since we're dealing primarily with perceptions and opinions here, I'm not inclined to criticize/contest/debate the vast majority of your points, but I will take issue with one comment you made and that's where you claimed "what I found was the standard consistent ignorance of what socialism (and communism) is or would be, and it is all a pretty good reflection of the 70 or more years of anti-communist, anti-Marxist propaganda we've all been fed". First of all, I know what socialism in its many forms is and I think most of us here know what it is. The "you don't know what socialism and/or communism is" has been one of the standard-issue responses to people's criticisms of socialism, communism and other forms of socialism (including national socialism/fascism) and it is rarely accurate - it's usually just a disingenuous means of deflecting criticism. Third and finally, while there certainly has been plenty of anti-communist and anti-Marxist analysis, criticisms and propaganda out there, I doubt it has given many people an inaccurate idea of what socialism, communism, Marxism, etc., are, and that propaganda doesn't explain how some or many on the Left are ignorant of many things about socialism in its various forms - the ignorance surrounding fascism's socialist roots being the most prominent example.

Glancing back quickly, I might express my own observation concerning "corporate power taking over the last shreds of representative democracy". This has been the criticism that many on the Left and Right have made about the stakeholder fascism I mentioned in the OP, which is being pushed by the stakeholderists at the WEF and the ESG crowd on the Left and has been embraced by the likes of Joe Biden -


"It’s way past time we put an end to the era of shareholder capitalism..."
- Joe Biden, July 9, 2020

- someone nobody is going to confuse with a RWer. In this case, we're talking about a problem that is rooted in a form of socialism, not capitalism, and to effect the takeover you spoke of requires the complicity and cooperation of the State, or more precisely, Leftists wielding the power of the state.

I might get address some of your other points later, but this will do for now, and once again thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

I'm sure you don't, because the polls are blowing a big fat hole in your cherry picking.

 

NOT at all .. polls have been wrong since 2016


2016

Poll: Most see a Hillary Clinton victory and a fair count ahead | CNN Politics
Poll: Hillary Clinton Holds National Lead Over Donald Trump (nbcnews.com)
Clinton Leads by 6 Points | Monmouth University Polling Institute | Monmouth University



2022

How the impending red wave could become a tsunami | The Hill
Dave Wasserman on the 2022 Elections: Red Wave Coming? (nymag.com)
Red tsunami: Strategists see re-emerging GOP dominance in midterms (axios.com)
Democrats ramp up spending in blue districts as GOP sees red wave forming (nbcnews.com)
GOP Has Political Winds at Their Back in 2022 (gallup.com)
Democrats, on Defense in Blue States, Brace for a Red Wave in the House - The New York Times (nytimes.com)


but the actual election result

Democrats won 8 consecutive years – 20017,2018,2019,2020,2021,2022,2023 and 2024

Democrats won special election in 2017.
Democrats won Mid-term election in 2018.
Democrats won Governor race in Kentucky NOV 2019
Democrats won Presidential election in 2020.
Democrats won special election in 2021 and won 2 Senate positions in GA.
Democrats won anti-abortion law in KS AUG 2022.
Democrats won Senate and two GOV in mid-term 2022 election. Red wave became oh well.
Democrats won special election in 2023 – In Wisconsin , Liberal judge won state wide election .
Democrats won special election ( Issue 1) in Ohio in 2023
Democrats won Governor race in Kentucky NOV 2023
Democrats won banning abortion in Ohio in NOV 2023
Democrats won entire Virginia legislative branch in NOV 2023.
Democrats won special election in Feb 2024 in NY.

 

True. Biden is a stakeholder fascist - something that was developed by the "corporatist" syndicalists in Italy and the national socialists in Germany:

"It’s way past time we put an end to the era of shareholder capitalism..."
- Joe Biden, July 9, 2020

It's become increasingly clear in recent years that many of the self-styled "progressives" in this country and the Democratic party are actually fascists.

 

Actually it doesn’t go over our head. We just think Latin American culture is much better then ku klux klan. That’s why we want to replace KKU culture with rich South American Culture.

 

Yes, and I recall the socialist who ran two remarkably popular campaigns for the Democratik party's nomination for president in 2016 and 2020 extolling the virtues and successes of the democratic socialists in Venezuela:

“the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina.”

Then "democratic socialism" turned into Stalinism, economic collapse, empty grocery stores and the ultimate barometer of socialist "success": people wiping their butts with their bare hands.

Venezuela Reaches the Final Stage of Socialism: No Toilet Paper
https://www.cato.org/blog/venezuela-reaches-final-stage-socialism-no-toilet-paper

Now that I think about it, it's rather amusing that the idea of Late Stage Capitalism was raised earlier. Now we know what Late Stage Socialism is all about.

LOL - Yeah, that is pretty funny....although they did eventually catch on to those pesky anti-communist Cuban refugees who committed the most egregious of all cardinal sins - voting Republican.

 

Actually, most of the takes are in Red state. 72% US GDP are in Blue district.

 

Again .. conservative loves word like “ socialism’ , “free Stuff’ , “takes” but they can’t back up with facts.

Very simple facts – 72% US GDP comes from Blue district. It is the blue state like CA , the 5th largest economy in the world, it is the blue CITY like NYC with 2.7 trillion GDP, which are the backbone of American Economic power. Takes? free stuff? , really ?

 

I don't know. As I recall, Vice President Harris campaigned for nationalizing the private health insurance industry, i.e, socialism, when she was running for president in 2016.

 

What you did is SAY you provided two different examples of socialism when in fact you didn't give any. What you did is say is this:
"Just so we're clear on what I mean by socialism, I am referring to it in the broad sense of the term, which would include, amongst others, the socialism that exercises direct control over a country and its economy through nationalization/collectivization ("traditional" socialism and communism) and the socialism that exercises indirect control through government mandates and regulations (essentially fascism, including the stakeholder fascism with its ESG program/index that has become fashionable in some rather lofty circles on the Left these days and embraced by the likes of current U.S. President Joe Biden, WEF Founder & Chairman Klaus Schwab and BlackRock Chairman & CEO Larry Fink)."
Now these two phrases "control over a country and its economy through nationalization/collectivization" and "socialism that exercises indirect control" are types of Socialism but the problem with your OP is that it veers of so you can make points that are false. There are MANY types of Socialism. Communism is not one. Your point in the OP is to suggest if we implement more socialistic programs we're on the road to Communism. That is wildly untrue. It's the same with the continuation of your indirect control reference with the end of your sentence "through government mandates and regulations (essentially fascism" where you are again trying to say that any form of Socialism leads to fascism. You're deliberately being misleading.....OR, you honestly don't know what you're talking about.
Because of your condescending attitude, I'm going with B.
"Obviously, socialism remains widely unpopular on the Right" No, they aren't. People like their Social Security. They don't like what the Reagan Republicans did to it. Farmers like their Co-Ops. People like Medicare.
" Democratic Party, which are now led by the "progressives" (socialists)" Again, you're being ignorant or misleading. Progressive = Socialist is ridiculous.

 

I'm not a conservative, and no one loves socialism and free stuff more than Lefties - particularly the socialists who masquerade as "progressives".

 

I recall Obama making a speech including the line "you didn't build that" which got many of his conservative opponents up in arms, but he wasn't all wrong.

Even the very few (and they are very few) who make their way from the bottom to the top by mostly their own effort don't do it with no help at all. They usually benefit from free public grade school and high school education, use public roads to get their goods to market, have educated workers available for hire (also from the public school system), have peace and orderly society to conduct business in, kept so by police and the military and fire and other emergency services, and have a large customer base they can sell to (rather than just a handful of super rich), who have money to buy their goods, etc.

Socialism is as essential to a thriving society as capitalism is. Neither does well on its own.

 

Why is Socialism gaining in popularity? Rather than sputter on for paragraph after paragraph, it boils down (after a lot of boiling) to the fact that, today, most people in 'the West' would prefer to sit on their asses, do nothing, and settle for having little rather than gaining the education, the knowledge, the experience, and the motivation to pursue success aggressively, set and attain goals, and enjoy greater enrichment of their lives....

The truly tragic thing is that this enormous (and growing) percentage of the population is allowed to VOTE, just productive, self-supporting citizens can who don't (DON'T) suck welfare and 'subsidies' off of the government.

Never, EVER, forget this --

 

Socialism to those who defines socialism as state-owned/controlled/operated/administered.

 

72% US GDP comes from Blue / progressive district. apparently progressive work hard and produce 72% US GDP. if they loved “free stuff” then in progressive are the GDP would be 28%.

 

Medicare and Social Security are examples of policies in the United States that have been called "socialist."

They are, overwhelmingly, popular with Americans because they address the needs of the People, regardless of whether they pass some ideologue's litmus test.

 

Most people in the West would rather sit on their a$$? Is that why the total GDP of Western society is 54 trillion USD?

You don’t think wealth increase / GDP grow when people sit on their a$$ , do you?

 

Ideologues like to whine about "socialism," but the reality is that all advanced nations are hybrids, varying balances of laissez faire capitalism and enlightened social welfare policy.

 

FWIW...The vast majority of colleges are non-profit.

 

You SAY I didn't, but right there in clear plain English I provided two different examples of socialism - direct ("traditional" socialism and communism) and indirect (national socialism and stakeholder fascism) - and acknowledged that there are other forms of socialism which didn't require listing but I'll provide you with another one here: fascism.

Incorrect - communism is a form of socialism. In fact, communism was the earliest form of socialism practiced here in the United States.

That is what YOU read into my OP, but that was neither my point nor what I suggested. If anything, the question I posed asserts that socialism has already become more popular in the United States (which it has) and I asked why. Naturally, we've seen a whole host of answers from people on both the Right and the Left, and as I stated earlier Kode's response has been by far the best from the Left (no surprise given that he is a socialist).

That being said, we are already on the road to socialism. The questions concerning that is 1) how much further down that road is America going to travel and 2) in which direction would America travel?

Well, it's your straw man....

Another straw man.

I didn't try to say that because I know that fascism is only one form of socialism. Thus, 1) any form of socialism does not necessarily lead to fascism and 2) all forms of socialism do not lead to fascism/

Or you're dealing in straw man arguments.....which you are.

Go for it - you've already failed this quiz.

Really? Social Security is so popular the government forces people to participate in it. FYI, I know a lot of people, including myself, who would prefer to handle their retirement money themselves because they'll get a much better return on their investment, but we don't get that choice. We're forced to "like" a government-run ponzi scheme that has turned into a government slush fund.

What Happened to the $2.6 Trillion Social Security Trust Fund?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/merril...n-social-security-trust-fund/?sh=4dcbf2884947

Given that no one appointed you the American People's Official Spokesman, we'll stick with you don't like what the Reagan Republicans did to it (and it's a safe bet you don't like anything "Reagan Republicans" did).

I imagine they do prefer their privately-run co-ops to them to socialist collectivized agriculture that doesn't allow private co-ops to exist.

Another program that's so popular people are forced to participate in it....

It's ridiculous that socialists hide behind that euphemism.

Have you noticed how Demokrats have taken to trying to out "progressive" each other in recent presidential primaries? Evidently, you would have us believe that they're trying to out Austrian School Libertarian each other:

"I pledge to be the next Javier Milei...



We're gonna slash us some gubmint!!"

Not....ever.....lol