Why is there a debate over global warming?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Neodoxy, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    No. The science of climate change isn't political. There are plenty of Republicans, conservatives, and libertarians that don't deny science and who acknowledge that the Earth is warming and that humans are primarily responsible. There are, of course, elements in our society (on both sides of the political spectrum) that politicize the science. I get that. But, that doesn't mean the scientific consensus regarding climate change was born out of political ideology. It was born out of the abundance of evidence that had nothing to do with politics.

    By the way, I'm not a Democrat or a liberal.
     
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  2. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To the true scientists, please review this. Please express a displeasure by telling us what minute and what was wrong. Thanks.

     
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  3. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    I haven't watch the whole thing yet, but let me point out one massive problem right off the bat. The guy is doing his presentation in front of a banner that says "The Sun is the Main Driver of Climate Change. Not you. Not CO2 [and other stuff I can't read". The problem is that the Sun brightens as it ages by about 1% per 100 million years. The Earth was far warmer 500 million years when the Sun was 5% dimmer. From that point to the present the Earth has cooled gradually while the Sun brightened. The temperature of the Earth moved in the exact opposite direction of solar output. This is actually known as the faint young Sun paradox. If this guy is willing to do a presentation in front of a blatantly wrong statement like this then I'm guessing he's not really concerned with being right in general. I'm just saying...

    Oh and by the way, the faint young Sun paradox is solved in large part by GHGs and specifically CO2.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  4. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Benghazzi..
    Bush had 13 of them, hypocrite.
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have more time to check it out. I appreciate you checking out the entire presentation. We have no idea who put up the banner.
     
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  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    “It's pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails. We're in crazytown," Kelly is quoted as saying about Trump
     
  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    It is probably far more political than you think, but, IMO, Fake Science is more about money than politics. And that is not a new thing.

    “Men only care for science so far as they get a living by it, and that they worship even error when it affords them a subsistence.”
    — Goethe, from Conversations of Goethe with Eckermann and Soret."

    FABIUS MAXIMUS, The replication crisis in science has just begun. It will be big., By Larry Kummer, Editor Science & Nature 19 April 2016.
    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/04/19/replication-crisis-in-science-95394/
     
  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Now you are attacking iamanonman? You are wrong.
    He is just a bit too naive about the motivations of scientists - he is not "off the rails".
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    LOL! I double dog dare you to find anything from my posts here praising a Bush presidency. ;-)
     
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Dementia ?
     
  11. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Refresh my memory.
     
  12. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It the utter lack of consistent data that confirms it. This whole hoax is based on a tiny data set that spans mere decades. We know for a fact the Earth was warmer for millions of consecutive years when dinosaurs roamed it and man played no part in that. As to 'rates' of change we are seeing now, we have no basis of comparison with similar data sets from the past...
     
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  13. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We can't be sure, in fact we still don't even know all factors that effect climate and we certainly don't have any comprehensive all encompassing model to determine what are the most significant driving factors to any long term climate events...
     
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  14. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The moment they blame man is the moment the next point should be clear.

    That man is in charge of climate. They deny that but the connect the dots leads only to that conclusion.
     
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  15. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    by "We" you're referring to yourself and your rightwing ideologue cohorts, deniers are shouting into the wind....they've lost

    the scientific world and the vast majority of the planets population has moved on...the rest of the planet has now progressed to mitigation of man made climate change ....

    and yet you still won't say what is causing this climate change event..it's a consistent, bait and switch, strawman, answer a question with a question, conspiracy hoax,it's happened before, the list of avoidance tactics is endless...you have no answer...game over, you lose
     
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  16. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By all means show us the all encompassing model that proves that man is the deciding factor when placed side by side with ALL other factors. You can't, your hoax is almost up, decades of lies, fabrications, and failed predictions create more and more skeptics every day...
     
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  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One thing grinding my grits is if they keep blaming man, then they must inform us all what they do to chill the climate. I mean that. Do not lecture us if they are heating the climate. We know thousands of things that put out heat. Do they eat cereals? They add to climate woes. Do they drive cars. Worse than cereal. Do they heat their homes? When driving do they use the AC or heater? Stop lecturing me when they are very guilty. do not preach like Al Gore does.
     
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  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Human activity is not some "Deciding Factor" (whatever that means), but is undeniably effecting the speed and depth of the impacts. It really does not even matter anymore regardless since no one can do anything about it. I suggest both sides in this just relax because if deniers are right we have nothing to worry about and if not we wont be able to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  19. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to what? The planet has had climate for billions of years, humanity has been keeping records a few hundred years, how on Earth can you determine the human factor of anything when it comes to climate? Its arrogance and ignorance that drives the climate change death cult. I agree though, if man is doing anything, we have long passed the point of no return and taxes and whining won't fix anything, yet that's the only thing that's offered as solutions...
     
  20. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Chemical composition of atmosphere and monitoring of changes as well as Physical documented thawing of Tundra and Glacial ices releasing methane.
     
  21. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Composition of the atmosphere in what regard? Any methane release from thawing is irrelevant to the annual methane release from the ocean floor, and that is little studied and even less documented, because it doesn't fit into the hoax really well...
     
  22. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Increases in greenhouse gasses in relatively short time frames that just happen to coincide with human industrial development and melting methane ices in the oceans have been documented as increasing as oceans warm...thanx for pointing this out.
     
  23. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Humans are not doing anything to warm the oceans, any thought of that is pure lunacy. This coincidental increase in comparison to which other similar or even dissimilar increases? What sort of reliable data from past occurrences can be compared with the datasets of today?

    That video was ok, but it really didn't get into the fields of gelled methane, not something just leaking from under the surface, this stuff is leaking off constantly, and sheets of it break off, the rate and volume of methane released by these field is virtually unknown as most of the deep ocean floor is unexplored...
     
  24. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay...Have A Nice Day:)
     
  25. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Fact: The Earth is warming. 3 satellite datasets, 6+ surface station datasets, and dozens of reanalysis datasets all confirm this. In fact, there isn't a single dataset in existence that publishes a global mean temperature that says otherwise...literally none.

    Fact: The warming since WWII is primarily caused by the greenhouse gas effect. The smoking gun here is the warming troposphere and hydrosphere simultaneous with the cooling stratosphere. There is no other physical process that explains, predicts, or can otherwise cause this unique effect...literally none.

    Fact: Humans are responsible for nearly 100% of the increase in greenhouse gases. This is confirmed by mass accounting of carbon, the ratio of 14C-to-13C/12C, the decline in the ratio of 13C-to-12C, the absence of any new natural sources of carbon, and the lowering of the O2 ratio relative to the other gas species in the atmosphere.

    Throughout the years the IPCC has considered over 100,000 lines of evidence reviewed by 10,000 experts to produce 10's of thousands of pages of material summarizing the evidence from nearly all disciplines of science including but not limited to classical physics, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, molecular physics, geology, oceanography, paleoclimate, biology, and many more. The evidence spans 200 years of scientific history with the first predictions occurring over 120 years ago by a Nobel Prize winning chemist whose contributions have proven to be so accurate that his formula for the radiative forcing of CO2 is still in use today as a quick and easy way to estimate the warming.

    You are doing the digital equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming la..la..la as loud as you can.
     
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