Why the world should adopt a basic income

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    You still have not read the article, so I will quote it further ( at least some others might get to see the truth of the matter):

    "Although Venezuela is not technically at war, it is suffering from foreign currency strains triggered by aggressive attacks by a foreign power. US economic sanctions have been going on for years, causing at least $20 billion in losses to the country. About $7 billion of its assets are now being held hostage by the US, which has waged an undeclared war against Venezuela ever since George W. Bush’s failed military coup against President Hugo Chavez in 2002".

    And the previous paragraph, on hyperinflation:

    "It was the same problem suffered by Weimar Germany and Zimbabwe, the two classic examples of hyperinflation typically raised to silence proponents of government expansion of the money supply before Venezuela suffered the same fate. Prof. Michael Hudson, an economic rock star who supports MMT principles, has studied the hyperinflation question extensively. He confirms that those disasters were not due to governments issuing money to stimulate the economy. Rather, he writes, “Every hyperinflation in history has been caused by foreign debt service collapsing the exchange rate. The problem almost always has resulted from wartime foreign currency strains, not domestic spending.”
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Should I also research alchemy, or can I just accept a millennia of experience with the subject and dismiss it?
     
  3. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    No to both questions.

    So ….do some research on MMT.

    [Slavery existed for several millenia, but we have just about seen the last of it, at least in institutional form].
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  4. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Income like SNAP?

    And if the rich don't fund government decently, here is what we get:

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/41...ent-debt-bomb-will-eventually-explode-podcast

    The student debt bubble that has accumulated to the tune of $1.5 trillion is becoming a massive problem – and a problem that I don’t predict is going away anytime soon.

    Rather, I feel the most likely scenario is that this pile of debt will have to eventually be monetized or bailed out by the government and that this will ultimately result in taxpayers once again having to bear the brunt of poor fiscal policy and poor decision-making by the Federal Reserve and the government.


    and

    This bubble is going to have to be addressed at some point, sooner or later. Whether that comes in the form of common sense from our government trying to get out ahead of the issue (unlikely) or the more likely scenario, it catalyzing or being part of a financial catastrophe, the irresponsible levels of debt that this country has allowed to pour into student loans will undoubtedly cause chaos at some point in the near future.

    And this from a commentator who believes the free market can achieve education to the highest levels commensurate with students' abilities. Give it a shot - and watch the US become a third rate country.

     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Better idea: have some country do some experiments with MMT and let's research the results. I'm totally cool with the EU adopting this, the UK, or virtually any other country other than the US. So there is a worldful of possibilities to study MMT. If it pans out, then the US can consider it.
     
  6. james M

    james M Banned

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    yes their problem is socialism.The govt owned the oil industry and took total control of the rest of the economy and did with it what the Soviets East Germans, Red Chinese and Cubans did, they ruined it while capitalism would have made it thrive. Now do you understand?
     
  7. james M

    james M Banned

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    MMT is pure ignorance, even Krugman, a far lefty does not think it makes sense!
     
  8. james M

    james M Banned

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    Why should the rich fund govt when govt is wasteful,monopolistic, and when America is about freedom from govt. The rich dont exist as a cash cow for you to rip off at gunpoint!!
     
  9. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, Picketty's main error was aggregating all assets as "capital" and claiming the return to that "capital" exceeded the economic growth rate. But Matthew Rognlie of MIT showed that the gains in "capital" were all in housing (i.e., land). Nothing to do with capital in the classical sense of products of labor devoted to production, nor even the neoclassical (i.e., accounting) sense of assets devoted to obtaining income. The Law of Rent and the Henry George Theorem show why landowners are legally entitled to take everything from everyone else.
     
  10. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    And where would this money come from?
     
  11. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    MMT is mostly correct about the current system in which private commercial banks create almost all money de novo in order to charge interest on it. Where it goes wrong is in claiming that all money is debt, so there can't be anything wrong with using debt as money. They also propose government issue debt instruments to satisfy "private sector demand for investment vehicles," meaning that it is somehow government's proper business to provide interest income to people who have money lying around, and don't want to take the risk of doing anything productive with it.
     
  12. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Socialist fantasies need to take into consideration future demographic changes. There will not long be anywhere near enough people to fleece for such nonsense.
     
  13. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Debt money created by private commercial banks has to be paid back because that removes it from the system, which would otherwise double-count loan assets on banks' ledgers. There is no reason to remove debt-free government-issued fiat money from the system: just stop issuing it if prices are rising too fast. The problem with governments issuing fiat money is that elected officials use money issuance as a drug, to get re-elected. It should instead be issued by an independent Mint whose sole mandate is price stability.
     
  14. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    Maybe from the rents rich, greedy, privileged parasites like landowners, banksters and IP monopolists currently get in return for no contribution to production...?
     
  15. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Taxation.

    Just like half the Discretionary Budget Spending that at present subsidizes the DoD:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  16. unkotare

    unkotare Well-Known Member

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    Hilarious that some would still parrot the slogans of the most proven failure of a form of government/economy in modern history.
     
  17. james M

    james M Banned

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    MMT is just another liberal free lunch scam! We got from Stone age to here when Republicans supplied new inventions, not when liberals supplied new scams.
     
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  18. james M

    james M Banned

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    if you collect rent for no production everybody would want rents until it paid same as everything else. 1+1=2
     
  19. james M

    james M Banned

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    that way there is maximum incentive to loan money to those who grow the economy rather than waste the money and cause depressions. 1+1=2
     
  20. james M

    james M Banned

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    yep tax and spend on welfare!!! , a liberal is like a parrot!, France taxes all there is and still people are rioting it the streets because it makes them so poor.
     
  21. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Spoken by a supporter of 'survival of the fittest'.

    But all humans are potentially <'fit'> , if given a hand up (not the same as a hand out), in an environment displaying a functional economic system (impossible in a wholly free market system where, by definition, the <fittest> take the winnings); so that no-one languishes in poverty, ignorance and/or criminality.
     
  22. james M

    james M Banned

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    are you a supported of survival of the least fit?? Why?
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

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    if true then whats to stop unlimited welfare and them from reproducing and dragging everyone's standard of living down until everyone is starving?
     
  24. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Though in the EU, France is failing to compete with Germany - it's analogous to Detroit cf Tokyo and Stuttgart, in the latter half of the 20th century.

    Free market competition without international oversight is the problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  25. a better world

    a better world Well-Known Member

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    Eliminate welfare altogether and make people responsible for their own choices, via institution of an above poverty-level jobs guarantee. Then people will procreate according to their economic circumstances - that's why the birth rate falls in more prosperous countries.
     

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