Why you can't have an honest or civil conversation with most racists

Meanwhile, back on planet earth - the UK's homicide rate is 3.8 times lower than the US's but their black population murders at a far higher rate than their white population. No black run nation has a murder rate below 2 homicides/100,000 people, yet the number of white nations in that category are in the tens. Moreover, no blacks in a white majority society has a murder rate as low or anywhere near as low as the white majority's murder rate.

Keep grasping at straws with meztizo and Amerindian gang members in central america.

 

Thanks.

 

Your opinions on this thread are racism and fall under the view that blacks can't be racist, only other people can.

Anyone can be a racist and has a protected right to be. Your view that people should endlessly harass racists is something people are tired up. I'm so sick of people overusing accusing people of being racist that 99% of the time I rapidly conclude the person is just a troll and posting pointless name-calling crap because they have nothing else to say. White people accepting the white-guilt-race-baiting are fools and blacks screaming "racists!" are fools.

I'm 100% NA, who had it 100 times worse than blacks, even black slaves. There were never campaigns of genocide against blacks. The black population was not reduced to 1% of what it was. I did grow up in harsh proverty. I bet you've never posted 1 word sobbing for or fighting for NAs, have you? In short, you're calling people "racists!" because you are in this for yourself and for what you probably see as "your people" - which of itself is fundamentally racist.

Blacks shouting "racists!" at others are self pity losers thinking they should get something for nothing. Rather than raging demands of what others must do for them, they should do for themselves. By their conduct they are who isolate themselves declaring they refuse to be part of mainstream society - and then rage and sob that they aren't.

I have lived in an NA community, a black urban ghetto and in a middle America white small city. The last was the least racist by far, and even lesser dangerous to anyone for what racism does exist. The NA community was the most racist. The black community used the most racial slurs. Both included very violently dangerous racism.

 

Could you provide a data source for homicide statistics by race in the UK from an official source?

What straws? Those guys are European descendants with little Indigenous blood. Before the mixing, those Central and Southern American inhabitants were considered uncontacted tribes. They get infused with a significant amount of European DNA and suddenly arms, legs, guts, what have you everywhere.

The murder stats conveniently leave out other violent acts like illegal wars and all that. The white race is killing itself off and no one can tell because it doesn't show in the crime stats. How unfortunate. LOL!!!!

 

You're welcome.

 

First of all I never implied that only Whites can be racist. This is coming straight out of your imagination.

Why the hell are you abbreviating Native American? At first glance most people wouldn't even know what you are talking about. What is an NA? Write the full words!

I am part Native American myself and have a great deal of sympathy for the plight of Native Americans including genocide and modern poverty. But you shouldn't insult the heritage of African-Americans by claiming that you had it worse than Black slaves. Even if you grew up poor you are free. You didn't have to work all day with no payment making someone else rich, get beaten and whipped constantly or have lustful men come in to your quarters and rape your women nor were you ever burned alive, lynched, shot to death, or mutilated for not listening to your master. Don't act like you had it worse than Black American slaves because that is a lie.

People can be racist if they want to and other people have a right to judge them just as they do any other immoral behavior. The point of this thread is that you can not have honest or civil conversations with racists. They are dishonest and uncivil all the time.

 

You've already posted data showing Honduras is mostly meztizo. I'm not at a laptop so will not provide stats on black homicide rate in the UK. There are few low homicide black run nations, unlike numerous low homicide white run nations.

 

Actually there are several Black run countries in the Caribbean and Africa with medium to low homicide rates.

 

Yes, now that I'm thinking about it, you asked for something regarding their genetic makeup and I shared it. Nonetheless, I've yet to hear a counter for that piece of information.

Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye out for your info on murder statistics by race in the UK from an official source.

 

I didn't say I had it worse, though I had it worse in my youth than just being poor. But that's beside the point. I said NA's had it worse and meant in history - clearly as I stated "genocide." "Native Americans" (as you prefer though the current PCism is "Indigenous Americans") did have it far worse. Hundreds of black slaves were not routinely murdered to the last person. Everything you posted of was done to NAs on a mass, even industrial and official government policy level. But my point is simple and one you ignore and that is that your concerns of injustice are selfish rather than about racism and injustice in general.

My other point is all the ranting of racism about blacks is overwhelming for political agenda - ie votes - and for dfor white politicians - specifically Democrats - determined to keep all but white people defined to everyone as "them people" not "us people." There is no profit, no votes and no power is sobbing and ranting on behalf of Indigeous Americans - in the present or in the past. In fact, while no one defends slavery you will find the majority of whites on this forum and in general will defend the mass attrocities and genocide against NAs, while trivializing and excusing it at the same time.

The true "enemy" of racism - whether it white racism, black racism, Latino racism and all the race-baiters seeking profit by doing so is interracial marriages. To desperately try to keep blacks isolated the government declares even if a person is overwhelming of white ancestry, still the government defines the person as black to keep them black and separate from the universal definition of "us" and we-the-people.

Even though many trace their ancestry in the USA before white people came to this continent, do you think the DNC will ever allow Latinos to be considered as Americans rather than perpetually Mexicans? There is no assertion that people whose ancestry are Irish, German, or Italian are more concerned of allowing Irish, Germans and Italians into the USA for which they are protesting against Trump and Republicans waving Irish, German and Italian flags. Do you think the white DNC and white Democratic talking heads will ever allow all but pure white people to be true Americans like they are?

 

So you're unable to read 'there are few low homicide black run nations'?

 

The post above is very very bigoted.

No doubt at all.

 

This nation was founded on slavery.

Yes, in fact a dozen presidents owned slaves.

Did your history teacher tell you about that part?

You were probably taught that Washington freed his slaves.

Problem is that so long as he lived, none of his slaves were free.

Saying they are free upon death only makes some happy. But for his years of public service and private living, he had a huge number of slaves.

The NA did have it far worse than the slaves did.

Abe the Outlaw hung nearly 40 on just one day.

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/hanging.html

Actually slaves supposedly were beaten a lot.

Frankly that is pure myth.

Some got beat. If one got beat and he kept doing what he was beat for, he was nuts.

But the owners needed labor. And they fed the slaves. And they clothed the slaves. And they housed the slaves.

The NA were starved, not clothed and not housed.

And the government killed them.

I see the argument why the NA had it worse.

 

No disagree one should instead talk to then reasonably about their views

 

I couldn't find homicide rate by race from a reliable source. I did find prison population by race and racial breakdown of UK's overall population:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom#Statistics

 

I think the premise of your argument is flawed as many racists likely are being honest. IMO honesty in debate is just making a truthful statement of deeply held beliefs. In ideology words like honest, truth, and belief are subjective as as they are relative to an individual assessment rather than universal to all humanity.

Calling someone a racist will likely be met by a negitive responce that is not conducive to a civil and productive debate. Rather than labeling someone I would rather ask clarifying questions as to better understand their premise. To me debate is not about changing the mind of another, it is about opening my mind so I can learn from the perspective of another. But what I learn may or may not be what the other is trying to teach me. I have learned much during my time here although I bet I have changed few if any minds.

 

You made it sound like Black run countries having low homicide rates was the exception. I'm pointing out that several have low homicide rates, enough to claim that it isn't a universal or near universal trend that wherever you find Blacks you find high homicide rates.

I do think Native Americans had it worse than African-Americans overall. You and your descendants can survive slavery, beating and rape. You can't survive death. So the full-scale genocide of Native Americans was worse than slavery. I originally thought the other poster said he personally had it worse than African-Americans. He see now that he said Native Americans as a collective.

In my experience racists are very dishonest and uncivil.

 

Russia has the most criminals in the world, they are all white.

 

Do you have a problem with White people?

 

I'm trying to help my ppl, white ppl. We need to stop pointing the finger, the devil is inside, not some mythical other worldly spirit. This kind of enlightenment is not understand by most whites, whites did not teach me this. Whites fail to understand this as a form of denial, like when an addict won't kick it

 

Both statements are wrong

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that's odd because I have written civilly to you from the start of this thread and you didn;t even bother to reply. \so I presume this was some sort of trolling.

 

I could replace 'racists' in your post with 'progressives', or perhaps 'atheists' & come to the same conclusion.

 

You only directly responded to me once in this thread and I replied to you in the very next post which was #34 of this thread.

The idea that Blacks have more testosterone is a myth whether you're claiming the cause was slave breeding, evolutionary factors or any other genetic reasoning. The science on this issue indicates that high testosterone does not cause people to commit violent crime and there are no racial differences in testosterone level. There was a study in the 1980s that did claim that Blacks had more testosterone than Whites but it was superseded by a more recent study which found that controlling for age and Body Mass Index eliminated the difference in testosterone level between Whites and Blacks.

I discussed this by email with Joseph Graves:

This is the study he attached to the email:

Serum androgen concentrations in young men: a longitudinal analysis of associations with age, obesity, and race. The CARDIA male hormone study. Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention Vol. 11, 1041–1047, October 2002

Here is an excerpt from one of Graves' articles on Rushton addressing race and testosterone.

By the way Jamaicans do not produce the world's fastest sprinters. Usain Bolt is the fastest sprinter in world history and he is from Jamaica however out of the Top 10 fastest male sprinters of all time only 3 of 10 come from Jamaica. Most of the fastest sprinters in the world are African-Americans. Now I do believe there is a genetic component to running ability which is probably related to higher fast twitch muscle (though in Graves' book The Race Myth he calls this claim in to question citing studies which I need to review) but Blacks do not run faster because of higher testosterone. More likely than slave breeding African-Americans and Jamaicans are over-represented in Olympic Sprinting rather than Blacks from African countries dominating those events because the superior training regimens in America and Jamaica enable sprinters from those countries to maximize their genetic potential for running ability.

No, you couldn't. But if your point is that progressives or atheists can be uncivil or dishonest then I'm sure you could find examples of this however I would wager that racists are a great deal more uncivil and dishonest.

 

So the truth of the claim doesn't matter, but only if we're talking "mental characteristics", right? So you can keep talking about...

...and if that claim is true, then you're not racist, because it's not mental, but muscular. Right? Sounds like you define racism very conveniently.

 

The truth of the claim does matter. I simply believe that claims that races differ in mental characteristics whether true or false are motivated by racist ideology. The reason for this is obvious. Unlike running ability many people place value in mental characteristics such as intelligence and personality. Our behavior is what distinguishes us from animals. The more intelligent you are the more highly people think of you. The more well-behaved you are the more they respect you. Mental traits are highly associated with human value. For this reason claims of racial differences in mental traits are highly controversial.