Will the left return to Liberalism?

For around a decade, the woke authoritarian identity politics arm of the left has gotten stronger and stronger, but I am hopeful that with this passed US election, people have made it clear that they are sick of this.

However, Bernie Sanders remains extremely popular and well liked, not just on the left, but with centrists and even a good number of people on the right. Many who supported Bernie, ended up voting for Trump, and I believe they can be swayed back, with Bernie's style of liberalism, about supporting the common people and fighting against the oligarchs.

I think the only hope for the left is to jettison the woke stuff, and embrace liberalism once again. We should be hearing about minimum wage, universal health care, lowering taxes for everyone and not just the rich, and not endlessly go on about trans women in sports, hiring and recruiting people based on race/gender, etc.

Trump is now in power and has the house and senate behind him. He has no excuse for when things go badly in the next few years, and there is going to be a golden opportunity for the Democrats to come back. They need to clean house now, get rid of the corrupt party insiders, and have a truly wide open primary leading up to the next presidential election.

But will that happen? It didn't happen after Hillary lost to Trump. What would it take to get things back to actual liberalism?

 

I want to see your point of view, but what I really need from you is to define what you mean by 'woke authoritarian identity politics'.

Give me real examples.

 

Going back to liberalism? The Progressive's are all about going forward, not backward. Pick a year, and do you think there is much of a consensus on the Democratic side of going back to the polices of Clinton 1996 or even Obama 2008? No way.

I think what you will see instead is something similar to the Hillbilly Elegy curiosity that the Democrats flirted with after Trump's surprise 2016 win. They briefly toyed with the idea that the working class had been ignored, and the rust belt woes were causing a lashing out...and then, just like the Skinner meme, they decided, no they were all Russian controlled racists. I think we'll see something similar come out of this eventually.

 

I would love to see the DNC take a more libertarian left tilt, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I think you're on point except for one thing. The Democrats should be fine with lowering taxes (who isn't?) but only after the federal budget comes into balance. We cannot lower taxes until after that happens. Democrats could identify with the common sense of ordinary people if they bit the bullet and embraced the need for budget cuts that helped bring about a balanced budget. They could rightly argue that this is an American problem, not a Republican-Democrat political football, and that they have the common sense and balls to tackle the problem. For Democrats, they should argue for budget cuts, but not budget cuts that harm our most vulnerable. That would make sense to people.

 

I can't envision this happening within the next 8 years.

Most of those on the Left are too money hungry, and have little to no real sense of money. They look with glee upon any excuse to spend money on a feel-good project.

The common sense Democrats ended with the era of Bill Clinton. Well actually, even Obama had maybe just a little common sense.

But consider that those who came of age during the Hippie Era are now in their late 60s, many of them elder leaders in the Democrat Party. Who knows, maybe in another 10 years after they begin to enter geriatric retirement, the ship might begin to right its course.

But on the other hand, look at the screaming mimis that are coming out of college now. Maybe things are going to get real bad in the future by 2060.
(Who knows what the intermediate future holds, though)

Anyway, I'm absolutely convinced the next generation of Democrat leaders is going to make Biden look like Honest Abe, by comparison.

 

What an interesting question .. and wouldn't that be something .. although I would like to propose a return to "Classical Liberalism" .to be more specific when individual liberty was paramount .it was veering off that path .. led down the dark hole ... !! deeep dark Hole of collectivist utilitarianism ..now morphed into a Fascist collectivist form of utilitarian debauchery .. the Gov't now classified as an Oligopoly Bureaucracy fusion monster.

 

My cynical guess is that Republicans will be weak-kneed about balancing the budget, and Democrats will not help because they don't want Trump to have that accomplishment.

Being weak, or working only to thwart the opposition party to the detriment of our country is wrong.

We conservatives now have a dual challenge. We have to fight against the liberals. That's one. But the other could prove to be even harder to do. And that is to hold conservatives' in Congress feet to the fire. They have everything - the House, the Senate, and the Presidency. They must govern effectively, and that will take courage and resolve. But do they have courage and resolve? I don't know. That is our real challenge. If they don't, our next Congress and President will be Democratic.

 

Do we foresee more "Government Shutdowns"?

Mainstream media blaming Republicans for it.

Claims about how not raising the debt ceiling is putting the entire nation in jeopardy, threatening the country's credit rating and endangering financial solvency and the economy.

Democrats being able to be as obstinate as they want and having all the cover to do so from the mainstream media that 80% of voters get all their information from.

 

That's possible if Republicans wimp out.

Here's what I think Republicans must do while they have the power:

- Balance the budget without harming our most vulnerable people. They must not do that by harming the elderly, disabled, and poor children. If we can stop the deficit spending, we put a big brake on inflation.

- Stop illegal immigration. Control legal immigration.

- Work for peace where there is war and keep us out of new, unnecessary, ill-begotten wars.

There's more, but those are my top three.

 

The problem is - and most Republicans don't realize - around half of Republican politicians are getting most of their information and being fed arguments from the mainstream news sources, which are covertly trying to undermine them.
So when you fill your mind with arguments - as disingenuous and dishonest as they may be - coming from the other side, it's going to result in ineptitude, impotency, and feebleness.

It would be like the devil constantly whispering in your ear, and you naively assuming they are your own thoughts.

I'm not saying don't read arguments from the opposing side, but I'm just saying people need to be very careful and skeptical of what they read and accept. A lot of people are not talented at being able to discern, and a lot of people aren't good at being able to think for themselves about many issues, and instead rely on being spoon-fed their thinking about those issues. Especially when a person is constantly emersed in ideas opposed to their own.

 

They are very unlikely to do or even try to do any of that, aside maybe from clamping down very slightly on the immigration.

I strongly suspect a year or two from now, most who voted for Trump will be very disappointed.

 

I think it's funny that the so-called Democratic party considers itself "progressive"..... As though the word progressive evokes images of positive change...

Things can always progress but that doesn't mean they're going in the right direction.

See the opinion of the majority of American voters in the last election for evidence of this effect

 

They've been "progressing" so much, eventually they are beginning to come around full circle and regressing.

I could have a long thread showing many examples of that.

But they have to keep on progressing onward and forward. Continuing the revolution, lest they lose relevance.

I don't think they'll gain ground until Republicans f(*)(*)(*) up, giving Democrats a platform to be able to stand up against the Republican errors and excesses.

What the Republicans might do to cause that, I'm not sure yet.

 

I apologize for derailing the discussion, on the first page, if I have done that.

 

I think Trump will remain the same. But he needs Congress. My fear is that the Republican Congress will wimp out.

 

Not disagreeing with you, but ... I think there is an attitude in Congress that reelection is everything. And when that's the chief motive, it spawns the desire to do nothing. Because when you do nothing, you can't be blamed for doing something. There are a gazillion excuses for causing nothing to happen. But there is no escaping either credit or blame for something you do. Congress critters weigh it out and often wimp out, choosing to do nothing and blaming someone else. In their reelection oriented minds, it's safer. My fear is that, even though they have the power to bring about change, they'll get weak-kneed and wimp out. I hope I'm wrong.

 

what will happen, is reasonable republicans will try to pass a bipartisan bill

maga republicans will say, no, we get everything we want, or won't vote for it

the bipartisan bill will pass

 

What happened over the last five years was Democrats shoved several big special interest spending bills down Republican's throats, coercing a portion of Republicans to sign on, and then claimed it was bipartisan.

Not really true, FreshAir. (Maybe you're referring to the border bill where the Democrats slipped in poison pill Trojan horse provisions into the bill that could never have been acceptable to conservatives, knowing that if the bill was passed they'd be able to sabotage border enforcement, and if it wasn't passed, they'd be able to use it to accuse Republicans of not being willing to compromise)

 

His voters were not disappointed during his first term.

What makes you think his second term will be different in that regard?

 

They are liberal on literally every issue. Trying to define them by the side issues doesn't change it.

Whether or not Bernie is liberal is debatable. He defined himself as a socialist, even thought he promotes social democracy, where (unlike in socialism) means of production are in private hands.

When did you stop hearing about that? Those are the key issues they keep talking about.

They are libertarian on many social issues, like legalizing pot, gay marriage and even immigration (although libertarians want literally open borders, not just 'open in name only')

 

When did the left ever leave liberalism??

 

I am talking about Trump's last term where Republicans controlled Congress, Trump could not get anything passed due to the maga nuts in congress

the Permanent Corporate Tax cuts were Trump signature achievement during his first term, republicans added in a special golf course tax cut to seal the deal with MAGA

 

You mean Trump's first two years? (2017 to 2018 )

Really? Because I thought it was just the opposite of that. Trump was obstructed by RINO Republicans, those first two years.

You and me sure do seem to have very different perspectives of reality...

Just for your information, from 2019 to 2020, Democrats had control of the government, by a slim majority, while Trump was president.

 

nope, maga would not vote for a bill unless then got everything... and dems nothing

only problem was they needed dem votes to pass anything