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World's first 'sand battery' can store heat at 500C for months at a time.

Discussion in 'Science' started by Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022.

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  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...nd-world-first-heat-thermal-storage/101235514

    Sounds like a plan Stan! Simple solutions may be our answer to the energy crisis
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  2. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Well that is sand you don't want in your shorts!
     
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  4. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Oh yes, we've been using them here for decades. Even better is a heat pump coupled with geothermal - where you bury pipes in the ground where the temperature is relatively stable. By using the ground temperature instead of air for the heat exchange, you vastly improve the efficiency of the system.
    https://dandelionenergy.com/geother...temperature is about,10 degrees or 90 degrees!
     
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  5. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    Another twist, if you have a family pool, the pool water could be used to cool the coils of the heat pump [being run in air conditioner mode] instead of ground temperature compensation. And it heats your pool for free!

    Heat pumps act as heaters and air conditioners
     
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  6. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    They've been doing something similar at the Noor power plant in Morocco with molten salt for a few years now.
    They use mirrors to heat oil to 400C and use that to power steam turbines and generate electricity. The excess heat is used to heat the salt which remains hot enough to keep the turbines going for up to 7 hrs after the sun goes down.
     
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Solar thermal - yes unfortunately expensive to set up and if birds fly between the mirrors and the collector you get fried chicken this promises to be cheap and although smaller it is sustainable.
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  8. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    I think they are making progress on the bird problem. I have read as much.

    Same with wind turbines. Progress there also, I have read. The bird strike count is scary high. But nothing compared to cats!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  9. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    They got around that and improved efficiency by having mirrors which focus the heat on a pipe full of oil just a few inches in front of each mirror.
    Better than the first solar arrays which focus all the mirrors on one spot up a tower.
    [​IMG]
     
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! It is hard to keep up with the advances in much of this tech
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And infinitesimal compared to mirrored buildings
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  12. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    They way I understand it the superheated oil is circulated through the mirrors then through the system which heats the water for the steam turbines then the huge salt vats and back to the mirrors again during the day then at night the stored heat in the salt takes over running the turbines.
    A bit of cod maths, if the oil is at 400C and it loses 100C heating the water it's still going to be at 300C by the time it gets to the salt.
    The 7 hrs of after dark electricity generation is the time it takes for the salt to fall from 300 to below 100 C.
    Give or take the margin of efficiency of the system.
    Some one with better physics than me could point out the variables and fine details but you get the gist.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  13. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    All over Saudi Arabia, people are rolling their eyes and saying - "a sand battery??? You've got to be kidding me!!!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  14. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Lets hope their extra fine sand is suitable for the process.
    I know they have to import courser sand for construction.
    It would be ironic if molten sand was the thing that eliminated the need for their oil but they couldn't make use of their own and had to import it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! The article was from an Aussie news source so……..
    upload_2022-7-20_11-19-50.jpeg
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Think we probably have some somewhere we could sell them lols!

    upload_2022-7-20_11-22-21.jpeg
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  17. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    One thing I have heard about visiting Australia: It is a long drive ANYWHERE!
     
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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  18. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Literally selling sand to Arabs.
    I wonder if we could convince the Inuit that they need to buy our ice for building their igloos.
     
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Too right mate! Think of Australia as being roughly the same size as mainland USA minus Alaska

    upload_2022-7-20_11-35-51.jpeg

    So, driving from Brisbane to Perth would be the equivalent of driving from New York to San Francisco only for us we do not currently have a sealed east west road across the middle of the continent and you would have to follow the coast all the way around
     
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  21. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    I bet the few living right in the middle are a rum bunch
     
    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  22. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Montegriffo, Jul 19, 2022
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  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Lols! Actually massive solar farm going up in the NT
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Bowerbird, Jul 19, 2022
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  25. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Banned

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    I saw a documentary about the Inuit some years ago. As I'm sure you know, we see the effects of climate change in the N hemisphere most at the North Pole. The documentary examined the many ways Inuit life is affected. Many expressed great concern or sorrow over the end of a way of life. Then they asked one very old Inuit gentleman what he thinks of climate change. "I like it!" You like it the interviewer asked, why? "It's warmer!" replied the old man.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
    HereWeGoAgain, Jul 19, 2022
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