"You can’t make fun of faith"...did Pope just declare war on free speech!?

Mocking the bad parts of their religion hopefully gets them to change those easily “mockable” parts.

 

I take your point. My point is that a violent response to the mocking of socially problematic choices also needs mocking. If stage psychics or alien abductees took ovrr the job of running "faith", very few people wouldn't laugh out loud.

 

I like this Pope, so I was kinda surprised to hear him say that too

 

At least Mary had, at the very least, started puberty.

The same cannot be said for Aisha.

 

it that quoted somewhere in the bible? the our God is not as bad a pedophile as their God really is not much of an argument for either religion imo

.

 

You can only blasphemy God. Doesn't count to prophets.

 

http://www.tfd.com/blasphemy

blas·phe·my
(blăs′fə-m&#275
n. pl. blas·phe·mies
1.
a. Contemptuous or profane speech or action concerning God or a sacred entity.
b. An instance of this.
2.
a. Irreverent or impious action or expression in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.
b. An instance of this.

 

So, you're saying it is good under certain situations to go ahead and mock/ridicule peoples deeply held thoughts, if you disagree with them.

 

He is a bad person of course, because the book that he pushes says to kill gays, and he's too immoral to change that. Intellectual coward, this Pope is.

 

OK, so a dictionary widened the definition. I was speaking from the 10 commandment/biblical view.
Of course, I may be wrong on that. Take the name of the lord, the god in vain.

 

I do not.

Being as I live in the USA, I regard the Constitution of the United States as having greater authority than any religious leader, including the Pope.

The Pope, through this statement, attempts to carve out an exemption for religion from the exercise of one's right to freedom of speech. It is an attempt to get special treatment for faith/religion, and by extension, those who profess the same. I am firmly opposed to that. The freedom of speech is not subservient to anyone's faith.

I am inclined to agree.

That depends on what you mean by "ok". Would they have the right to do so, as a matter of free speech? Absolutely!

Would it be a morally acceptable thing to do? Would it be good for society? I try not to draw conclusions about morality without context, and since your question is a hypothetical lacking any, the implied question concerning the morality or social good of such acts will have to remain unanswered.

Would I personally view it as positive, or at worst, neutral? Again, I can't answer this in a hypothetical sense. Context matters.

Neither do I, but I'm not sure that was the intent.

Going back to your use of a gay person as an example, a person's sexual orientation is an important part of their identity. Several in this forum regularly mock it, though.

I don't see any reason to give faith identity special treatment that isn't accorded to matters of sexual identity.

Disrespect - regardless of the topic - is unlikely to lead to a positive dialog. However, shielding faith from others' exercise of free speech isn't about simple respect; it's about esteeming faith above the rights of others.

Good luck convincing some here that Muslims don't universally support terror. As for your question, that's an answer that will have to come from the people you think are going out of their way to insult those of Islamic faith.

Freedom of speech isn't necessarily about civilized dialog. It's about protecting the rights of people from abuse by their government, in which case we should not use government to curtail speech, however unpopular it may be. I regard the Pope's statement as an attempt to persuade governments to limit freedom of speech in order to give special rights to religion and people of faith. Nothing you or anyone else can say is going to persuade me that such a move would be good for society. The attempt to cloak this in terms of being respectful and to encourage civil discourse doesn't fool me one bit. Insult is in the eye of the beholder. Taken to the extreme: There are people who find the idea that I, as a gay man, am afforded basic freedoms to be an insult to their religion. I, however, am not about to give up my rights so that these people can have some special right not to feel insulted.

The freedom of speech does not contain a right to be shielded from things one may find insulting. Nor does the freedom of religion.

Well, here's the answer to that:

Edit: Link removed - the forum won't let me link to the quoted article because the link itself contains a word that the forum doesn't allow.

Clearly you couldn't be bothered to find out what the artist's intent was, so you chose to find it insulting based on your assumptions about his intent.

As I said, insult is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Yes, I think one can blaspheme a prophet, such as Mohammad or Moses, etc.
They both accepted slavery, and people consider them huge moral leaders (one is even a movie star lately), so of course they SHOULD be mocked.....if we can find stuff to mock, otherwise we won't mock them of course. But they are indeed both incredibly mockable. We mock Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, so of course we can mock Mohammad, god, Jesus, Moses, Buddha, etc.

 

"It is true that you must not react violently, but although we are good friends if (he) says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch, it's normal."

And if you did that in the USA, you could be convicted of assault & battery, despite the provocation.

- - - Updated - - -

The idea that you can only exercise your freedom of speech if someone else doesn't find it offensive very much is an attack on free speech.

 

I'd only recommend it if those beliefs have no basis in reality, such as a pedophile being the #1 role model of all time, or Jesus being moral (when Jesus, in Revelation, will allegedly come back and kill about 2 billion people, based on today's population....he also approved of his dad's "flood"....pretty sick if you ask me.) Yes, they need mocking.

 

sometimes religions need a good mocking, especially when they think that their Gods word should rule the land


.

 

You win post of the day award!

 

They've had, what, 2000 years to remove the acceptance of slavery from their book and they are too immoral to do so? Mock away! To hell with what the Pope said.

This will not go away.

 

"You can’t make fun of faith".....yes we can Mr. Francis, and yes we will (until "faith" demands evidence...but then it wouldn't be "faith" anymore, now would it.)
Faith leads to Crusades, Inquisitions, burning witches, unscientific beliefs (the earth is 6000 years old and "fossils" are just tricks from Satan), Jihads, discrimination against gays and women and non-believers, etc.
But faith did indirectly help sell over 3 million copies of a certain secular magazines in France this week, I hear!

 

I find it ironic the Pope, who is exercising his right of freedom of speech, is being denounced for doing same.

The hypocrisy in this thread knows no bounds.

The Pope has a right to condemn the French rag...aka "Charlie Hebdo," does he not?

He's not asking for everyone to genuflect and kiss his ring, he's offering his opinion, from the perspective as leader of the Catholic faith, that mocking someone's cultural identity is the equivalent to stirring a hornet's nest..and I happen to agree.

Apparently the Pope is not allowed freedom of expression.

Charlie Hebdo is journalistic detritus, it is a rag worthy only of cleaning up dog poop and bird cage droppings...it has not an ounce of integrity or legitimacy whatsoever....and this is my right to voice this opinion as it was the Pope's.

Too bad it does not follow the rest of the lemmings in here, who are incapable of critical thinking.

good day.
H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S

 

Of course we value his and your right to free speech! Get real. That's the whole point.

I'm quite glad he DID exercise that right, so we can see that deep down, like many Popes in the past, he's FOR blasphemy laws - when you get right down to it, or he would have not said "you can't make fun of faith". He wants stealth blasphemy laws, like Mohammad's supporters do.

Modern Secular Humanist belief is more secure about itself, as it's perfectly fine w/people mocking it.....but religions are insecure (Mohammad had critics KILLED.)

Mr Pope, again, yes will WILL make fun of faith, as it's so ridiculous that it NEEDS to be made fun of! He's more concerned about cartoons than he is about removing the parts of the Bible that say to kill gays. He's warped, morally.

 

Ok, NOW the truth comes out: "On Wednesday the magazine released a “survivors’ issue” which featured an image of the Prophet Mohammed on its front cover. The edition also included highly provocative cartoons about the Catholic Church."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...u-cannot-make-fun-of-the-faith-of-others.html
The Pope doesn't like his team being mocked, so he says "you can't make fun of faith".

Let the mocking begin.

 

The pope gave an opinion... and as he speaks for Catholics I would imagine that it is a directive passed from him to other Catholics. Christianity is not about freedom, its about following the dictates of a God. Now I know many Christians would say that is a/the way to freedom which is a foreign concept to me but I will not begrudge them for that belief.

 

Pope Francis condemned last week's deadly attacks in Paris, but said it's wrong to insult religious beliefs. This is what he said...

You're dramatic thread title insinuates he is "at war" with freedom of speech, and that is an intentional distortion of the truth. The Pope condemned the attacks, apparently that message is overlooked.

Because you can, does not mean you should.

I see no reason to itentionally mock someone's faith...you on the other hand think it deserves to be eliminated. Apparently you're unaware of the the other facet of the First Amendment which inlcudes the right to practice a faith. If anyone is an enemy of the First Amendment and it's rights contained herein, it is not the Pope..it is you.

for someone named "freedom seeker" this is not what you're extolling at the moment.

Faith is indeed a First Amendment right as is the feedom of expression...the Pope, and I agree with him on this, is basically saying, yes we have the freedoms to mock, to slander and to denigrate what others deem to be sacred, but should we do this, just because we can?

He's saying maybe it's not a good idea to stir the hornet's nest....just because we can.

What good is it to mock a relgious prophet in cartoon form? How is this advancing any sort of debate with regards to the West's perception of Islam as a religion steeped in violence. It is the equivalent of a schoolyard dare..."we dare you to do something about us making fun of your prophet..."

Well they did something.

I can't say I was entirely surprised....

I'm not a Muslim, but I fail to see the mocking and degradation of another's belief as furthering the dialog. I do not regard the Qur'an as "Holy" but this does not translate to taking a dump on it...which is the equivalent to what Charlie Hebdo was continually doing. What is the point of that? Please tell us how this advances any sort of honest dialog between the devout and the secular? "Your faith is a joke, your beliefs are worthy of mocking, in fact you have no right to even have this faith" Of course with that sort of approach to stirring the nest, you had best expect a few hornet's to sting you. I do not regard the devout Muslim as a"joke"...or worthy of mocking...or something to made fun of. I will in fact, defend their right to freely practice this faith.

 

Modern Secular Humanism is INDEED about freedom, mostly.
Christianity is "about following the dictates of God (this guy - thanks to Dawkins): “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

The Pope sides with the most unpleasant character in all of fiction (his god) by saying "you can't make fun of faith".
Free speech and democracy are not really a part of the Bible, because they approved of kings, gave kings power, etc. (totalitarianism, or theocracy, is what the bible is about.) Yes the Bible is about controlling you.

 

I'm more for freedom of speech than the Pope, clearly. I VALUE the Pope's, and your, right to free speech and to practice their religions. Jesus, on the other hand, wants (via his "hell" scheme) for all non-believers to spend over 99.99999999% of their overall (supposed) "existence" burning, burning, and then for good measure: burning some more! Clearly Jesus did not value freedom. Why not love non-believers, why not give them the freedom to join him in heaven (just say they are moral people, at least)? Jesus didn't do that because Jesus is a MONSTER.