8current, former service members to sue military, alleging rape, sexual assault and h

There are three million people in the military. You're delusional if you think an organization that big can be flawless. The military is full of people with the same flaws and motivations as civilians. Take a city of 3 million people....you're going to have all types. Sure the military does physiological and criminal screening, but its definitely not going to be perfect.

 

war on terror,wall street bail out? Yeah your argument pretty much fails right there. You did not really think it through very well. Just admit it,everyone can see. You are just an apologist for the US military and anyone going through your posts can see that.

 

No there are not 3 million people in the military.I have already proven that to be BS. You really cannot read your own governments figures that I provided. Also you have failed to address why the British,a comparable western military have very very low rape figures where as the US military are way way higher. It shows that there is a real problem in the US military.

 

I can't find the numbers frankly. Your source is very vague and not sufficient for analysis. I'm not sure the British military even releases the numbers or how and what it classifies as rape/sexual assault. I spent a good 15 minutes looking for data and couldn't find any. All the Guardian/BBC articles only talked about the U.S. military which was surprising.

 

I have already provided verified figures from the US government and the Ministry of defence in the UK. You have failed to address it and are banging on about something else. Now address it or ignore it like your US apologist mates.

 

You're not reading my posts. I already addressed the 1% and 70-90% unreported issue at least 7 times. I actually went so far as to type out a diagram for you. You still ignored it, just as Third Man has.

 

Did you read my above post?

The 19K that I derived my 1% number from is an estimate, based on around 3,200 reported for FY10, assuming that only 13.6% of SA is reported...

Nobody dismissed anything...

And the military has programs in place to deal with SA, but, if you expect this to completely alleviate the problem (see there I am, calling it a problem again, which, like I said several time already, rape/SA always is), you are severely deluded...

Like I said before, 1% is not rampant...

 

No my source is not vague at all,it gives the official numbers from the UK ministry of defence. Nothing vague there. You spent 15 minutes looking? I already posted it and a link,did not look very hard did you?

 

The point of Gwens post has gone right over your head. You are just spouting what your fellow US apologists are.

 

Amazing how you have two people just spouting off claims, refusing to back them up, and then, essentially ignoring any claims and information to the contrary of their beliefs...

 

Can you throw that link up again please?

 

19,000 out of over 3 million?

Yes, that is a tiny fraction. Since that is the new number, let's break that down.

Tha computes to generally 6,300 per 1 million.

That is 6.3 per 1,000.

Oh, I forgot to ask. Is that "In general" or "in a single year"? Well, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and say it is per year, ok?

OK, that is .63 out of every 100. And that is with your own number of 19,000. Remember, that is a number you yourself gave us.

So yes, that is less then 1%. Closer to .5% actually, but let's not go there, not important. Anything over 0% is to much.

Now, can you please show me how many of those are rapes? How many are attempted rapes? How many are inappropriate touching? And how many just fall into an "other" category please?

Oh wait, you can't. Because the military does not report it that way. So we do not know if it is 18,999 cases of somebody being patted on the butt after a baseball game, and 1 case of rape. We do not know anything behind what happened, other then the report itself.

And we are going in circles over and over because?

The funny thing is, that no matter how we compute the figures over and over again, the amount is a tiny percentage. Normally around 1%. People throw us a number, we do the math to figure percentage, they throw a fit because we are wrong, throw out another number, we compute the percentage yet again.

So I accept your number. It is .63%. Fine, I accept that fully. Now let's do another comparison.

Most people spend their single 3-4 year term in the military, then return to civilian life. So for the practical purposes, these are kids from 18-24.

Now in college, during a 4 year term, 1.7% of female students will be raped, and 3% will have an attempted rape (in the military that is "sexual assault").

http://www.gibbsmagazine.com/Rape statistics.htm

So to qualify, to take college statistics we go with the higher number, since it covers both rape and assaults.

So please tell me, why are you over 4 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted on a college campus then you are on a military base? And what are we going to do about that problem?

 

Go look for it,you ignored it the first time round and now feign interest. It is a few pages back.

 

Please tell us why you are using figures from 1997? and you have the audacity on another thread to tell people to research when you use age old figures.Your mate herk tried this bit about the college students with data from 1992. lol

From your own link

Both components were conducted between February and May 1997, and were asked of women who were enrolled in college at the start of the 1996 fall semester. Both component results were based on telephone surveys of a randomly selected national samples of women who attended 2- or 4- year college or university during fall 1996. The sample sizes were 4,445 for the main component and 4,432 for the companion component.

 

The actual number is 3,191 which the DoD provided. The 19,000 number is an estimate based on the common understanding that most sexual assaults/rapes are NOT reported. The DoD does NOT differentiate between rapes and "butt pats" in their numbers.

 

My work computer is moving quite slowly right now so I was hoping you could link it. I never "ignored" it, (as you've ignored my data 7 times now), I just couldn't find statistics I was comfortable were accurate.

 

Exactly...

The 19K number has been touted as reported cases, when, in fact, that is the estimate...

Expect this to be ignored...

 

OK,fine.


Channel 4 News asked the MoD how many allegations of rape had been made to the military police.

After a two month delay - which the MoD said was due to a re-organisation of how offences were recorded - Channel 4 News was told that between 2007 and 2009, 76 allegations of rape were investigated by the Armed Forces.


http://www.channel4.com/news/military-investigations-fail-rape-victims

 

No, my response was not to you at all, but from another poster. And you claimed her statistics were correct also.

And no, this thread has grown into a gross comedy of errors. You see, I have a job. Once that often keeps me away from home for 2+ days a week. So when I come back on, I am not going to go through 10 more pages of coprlote. I simply skim through the few from my last post, then the more recent ones.

And I saw a lot of hate being thrown around over a commentary. A commentary. Unverified, unreferenced, just somebodies opinion. And I am frankly amazed that nobody else seemed to have picked that up and demanded a real reference.

You have to realize once again, I do not come in here with an axe to grind. I do not want to find Side A or Side B at fault, or to place blame. I simply try to look for the truth in the various swirls and eddies of the debate.

And commentary is not truth or facts, simple opinion. Which is what this thread is currently about half the time.

One side presents facts and truth, the other throws around nonsense and tries to hide the truth.

Rape and sexual assault is wrong. Truth.
Rape and sexual assault is a problem in the military. Truth.
Rape and sexual assault is rampant in the military and way more then the national average. False.
Rape and sexual assault are the fault of the military. False.
You are more likely to be raped in the civilian community then on a military base. Truth.
You are 3 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted on a college campus then in the military. Truth.

This puts is much more in perspective. If there was a single rape in the military per year, I would say that is to many. If there was more then a handfull of charges of Sexual Assault in the military, I would say that is to many. Of course, I would throw a bunch of them out as being nothing more then unwanted contact that is not intended as sexual in any way, but was simply pushed to far (yes, I have seen those). I would also take a certain percentage as something other then rape (I have seen that too).

But it is not the culture of rapists running around that so many of you seem to make it out to be.

And I am glad that this thread is nearing it's 50 page limit, so it can thankfully die once again.

 

Really? Then why were you quoting me then? Pretty much gives it away that fact? Please try and keep up with current events. Here you are quoting me but now you are claiming your response was not to me. Confused much mushroom?

http://www.politicalforum.com/warfa...-rape-sexual-assault-h-43.html#post1061037257

 

Thank you

Here's my issue with the data:

The U.S. number of 3,191 with an actual estimate of 19,000 includes rape AND sexual assault. There's a massive difference between the two. We'd have to see the numbers of rape+sexual assault allegations each year to make an accurate comparison. Those were the numbers I was trying to find, but couldn't.

 

You want to refute me, bring up newer figures.

Military rape and sexual assault statistics have changed very little over the decades. Up and down a fraction of a percent per capita.

Here, let me throw out another one, from 2010.

http://www.examiner.com/depression-...lege-students-will-be-raped-before-graduation

It's also a time when we are most vulnerable. How vulnerable? 1 in 4 college females will be raped by the time they walk down the aisle and accept their degree.

1 in 4 female college students will be raped before graduation.

If you think my 1.7-3% statistic is frightening, how about this statistic, 25%. This is a newer statistic, let's go with it then.

Now it is not just 4 times, it is closer to 40 times. And that is just rape alone.

However, I recognize that statistics lie. They are simply a number, and do not tell the real story. And somebody can make the numbers look however they want simply by manipulating them.

I can take the percentage, and use that. I can convert the percentage into a real number of taking the number of college students and then figuring out how many that was.

Being in the military and being an assistant SARC (now SHARP), I have seen these statistics before. I also know how much they do not tell. For example, they do not tell you who the rapist or assaulter was. If a soldier comes in who was out in town and assaulted by a civilian, it goes into the report. We had one 2 years ago where a male soldier was slipped a drug into his drink, and woke up while he was being raped by a foreign national.

But he goes into the system as a raped soldier. Because of anonymity, we simply report that somebody was raped or assaulted, and the extent of the assault. Nothing else. We do not even put into the report who the assaulter was, not important. And if the person wanted this report anonymous (which around 65% of them are), then we can't take any kind of legal action against the perp no matter what.

 

You can take the lowest figure if it makes you happy and it is still dramatically higher than the British figures. The British figures come in at about 25 rapes per year in 2007-2009. The US figures even at their lowest of the low figure come in at 3,191,so even taking into account that the US has a bigger military the US figures are much much higher than the British figures. That says that there is a huge problem with it in the US military and that is based on a comparable western military.

 

I agree, and am very aware of that.

However, I accepted the hyper-inflated number, and was trying to make a point even with that number. So even accepting that hyper-inflated number, it is still a tiny fraction when you compare it to the number of people in uniform.

 

Do you have a reference for those college numbers?