Well here is the problem. 22 million ppl who own a few hundred thosuand guns, and 310 million ppl with a gun in 1 out of 2 homes. American gun owners are not going to cooperate! They aren't going to just voluntarily turn in thier guns. Hell they are literally buying the gun manufacturers dry right now! You can't just legislate away a central cultural icon!! The people won't cooperate. They don't want government money, they don't want speeches, they want to be left alone with their guns. The only guns the government gets from buy back programs are old, rusty, non functional guns found in Grandpas attic. No Ar 15's are going to be showing up in a gun buyh back pile in America. How are you supposed to make a dent in something when the very people who own what your trying to get rid of refuse to cooperate to the point of civil disobedience, even insurrection against the state? You can't. America is a country full of rebels who disregard government all the time. We're not sheep who line up on order at the police station to do what we're ordered. We'll bury our (*)(*)(*)(*), we'll hide our (*)(*)(*)(*), we'll kill to protect our (*)(*)(*)(*). Randy Weaver and the Branch Davidians showed what will happen. Mass civil disobedience and violence against government agents.
Not true any longer. Take John Hinkley for instance. He once described to a magazine what a day was like for him in the mental institution. He replied, "I see a therapist, answer mail, play guitar, listen to music, play pool, watch television, eat lousy food and take delicious medication." Doesn't sound so awful to me. What's more, through the years he's been very leniently let out for visits with his parents.....now they are "unsupervised." Prosecutors object claiming he's still a danger to society.....but as usual, the liberal judges are willing to let him back out on society. Oh....but never fear! When he's on one of those unsupervised visits to his parents, he's "required" to take with him a GPS phone so that he could be tracked!!! Stupid, stupid, stupid...... One psychiatrist even went so far to claim that Hinkley no longer posese a threat to society. ALL this proving my point.....they get away with it and get turned back onto society eventually. THIS is the problem. And THIS is NOT being addressed.
Mandated gun safety!!?? First off.....we are required here to take gun safety classes in order to carry a gun. These kinds of laws are followed......BUT by law-abiding citizens. NOT by nutcases...and NOT by criminals. A mandated gun safety law would NOT have prevented ANY of the school shootings. The answer is to get tough on those who commit such crimes and those who assist them. The answer is to examine the drug and medication connection that is common in ALL these mass killings. The answer is to STOP letting these killers' lawyers claim they are unable to stand trial because they are mentally ill. IF they planned a mass shooting, they have the mental capacity to stand trial. PERIOD. And for the cowards who kill themselves first......we need guns of our own in all these places for protection and to actually STOP or lessen the numbers killed in such instances. We have gun security in banks, many high schools, government buildings, public buildings, in our Capitol, in our Senate, in the White House. So, why in the HECK would we NOT have gun protection for our children in elementary schools? Barack Obama's daughters have it. And they are NO more important than my grandkids are!!
---Are you implying there is intrinsic value in a deranged, psychotic person that would kill you if given the opportunity? When I say you, I mean YOU- take a moment to imagine you personally suffering a violent, terrifying death at the hands of someone who cannot be rehabilitated. Then ask yourself why they are around in the first place? To accomplish what, exactly? To make us feel civilized? ---Crazy isn't shooting to death twenty people. Crazy is believing you can accomplish the same result with a pillow, and then going out and trying to do so. If they can understand they are using a gun because it will produce the result they intend, rather than whatever object they get their hands on (a knife, a carrot, a puppy etc), they are sane enough to be fried.
Which hospital did you?? Sorry....but unless and until this president also tries to take away our freedom of speech, I am free to express my opinion. And my opinion is that the justice system protects the criminals and NOT the victims or potential victims.
So you have no qualifications what so ever to do psychiatric evaluations on the internet of all places? That's what I thought. What you posted was just an ill informed rant. Luckily that is not what our legal system is based on. Carry on.
I have an excellent idea on how to make this deranged killer stand trial *Walks in* Judge: "Guilty, life without parole" *Walks out* We dont have to worry about him being a danger to himself or others. If he goes to prison he wont be scaring anybody in there. None of those hardcore prisoners would be afraid of this guy. He wouldn't last a week. And if he is a danger to himself then....who cares? let him off himself that way the government doesn't have to spends thousands of dollars on chemical contraptions to kill him.
Yeah, right. And Loughner was cured in just 1 year....and suddenly was able to stand trial. Oh.....or maybe that was just another judge and one NOT quite so liberal.
There are things called antipsychotics. They take far less than a year to work. Putting someone who is nowhere near in full control of their mental faculties on trial is what they called in 1940s Germany and the Soviet Union a show trial. I'm glad we banned them in this country. Even if some right wingers want to bring them back.
There's a bit of history to that and it's shared in common with any criminal justice system. The criminal justice system is about protecting firstly the wider system and secondly it seeks to give some sort of blanket cover to the populus. It's definitely not about individual protection and US courts have reinforced that fact. Do you have victim compensation schemes in any of the states in the US? They are a way of trying to give some comfort to the often-forgotten victims of crime. Anyway, separate topic I suppose, I'll leave it at that.
Mental illness is illness. Period. Do we kill people who have contagious diseases that could hurt others?
Problem is.....everything is called "Mental illness" nowadays. Bi-polar? You're mentally ill.....especially if you murder someone. Anxious? Depressed? You're mentally ill....especially IF you murder someone. Do any of those mean one cannot distinguish between right and wrong? I don't think so......
So....do you think someone who is on Luvox for anxiety and depression is mentally ill? Or are they considered mentally ill only AFTER they shoot up a bunch of kids? If your kid is on Ritalin......do you label them "mentally ill?" I think not. However, I DO believe that IF that kid shot up a bunch of classmates, the lawyers would claim he was mentally ill.
But they do mean that you aren't in a rational state of mind and not capable of making decisions while fully understanding the consequences.
You moderate an obscure internet forum. You are not a doctor. Leave the diagnosing to the experts. Your simplistic and sweeping question shows you lack the knowledge and experience to make any kind of definitive medical diagnosis. And I thank God you and people like you don't run the legal system. Last time I checked ADHD is a mental disorder. Do the medical journals you read classify it as something else, doctor? As with things like burns there are degrees of illness. Just because someone has a respiratory tract infection doesn't mean they are in the ICU on a ventilator with mere days to live. They may just have a common cold. Why are you guys so extreme? Why can't you see the gradations in life? I know of no court in the land that will excuse someone from trial merely because they have some kind of psychiatric diagnosis. The question is are they so severely impaired that they cannot fully understand what is going on. Do you seriously not know this?!
---If they are so deranged their murder plot is foiled by the fact they showed up with a banana instead of an assault rifle, I'm inclined to believe they are experiencing a bona fide break from reality. If the only rational decision made in their plan is the selection of a weapon appropriate for killing the numbers of people they have planned to kill, I don't see room for excuse. It's a hard sell for me to believe that a person who chose the appropriate weapon to produce their desired consequence (in this context murder), did not understand the consequences of their actions.
Is that what they taught at your medical school?! Are you saying that someone that is experiencing positive symptoms of schizophrenia is incapable of choosing an effective weapon particularly in America where we have them just lying around everywhere?! Better call NEJM. You are giving the medical community new information and contradicting decades of medical fact.
I think you are confusing actual mental illness with (*)(*)(*)(*) on TV. Your portrayal of the mentally ill is insulting to people who actually have mental illness.
---If, despite their illness, they understand the consequence of their actions, how mitigating should that illness be? P.S. ---Your attitude doesn't serve your position. Your argumentation is swaying, but the way you mock and deride might galvanize some that might otherwise be open to a change of mind. I'm not here to respond sardonic, rhetorical questions that do nothing to substantiate your opinion. Thanks.
---I'm referring to "psychotic breaks from reality". I should not have portrayed that with regards mental illness as a whole That is my error. ---In the context of insanity defense in these mass murder episodes, I'm under the impression the the act of mass murder itself has been purported to have been carried out during such an episode (which can be real). I'm not saying the some of these mass murders did not have real mental illness. I'm skeptical that they carried out their plots during a psychotic break from reality. It could be that I'm not aware of lesser variances categorized under that label. ----If I'm bring ignorant, school. I'm only here to test the validity of my own understanding. I do come to some opinions, but they will change with the facts. I will give you that I have been an overreaching and presumptive in this thread. My apologies.
