Oh, stop with the condemnation for everyone who DARES speak on this issue. This is a discussion and debate forum. IF you don't care for the subject matter, then it might be a good idea to pass this one up. There is no requirement that anyone, including you, have a law degree or medical degree to discuss THEIR opinions on the issue.
I don't believe anyone has advocated for "summary executions" for the mentally ill. We're asking for trials and for them not to be protected by the legal system. More protection given there....than to the little kindergarteners who were "summarily executed." And after all.....many of these mass school shooters were in school themselves. So why is it they can get up and attend school, pass their classes, function in a way that even their families didn't know they were THAT messed up...and yet AFTER they kill a bunch of people, suddenly they are "too mentally ill" to stand trial? Those that don't kill themselves, that is. LOTS of planning goes into these killings. It's not done by one night deciding the next day you'll go shoot up a school. The movie shooter spent months planning it.
JP5 it is obvious I care about this matter a heck of a lot more than you. While I have my personal feelings about this individual I don't think we should become a country of barbarians lashing out constantly with emotions. I care about a little thing called the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If you don't care about it maybe you should move somewhere where it has no jurisdiction? The government has the right on pain of imprisonment to force me to sit in a jury box and sign a man's death warrant. Well before they FORCE me to participate in such a proceeding they better be (*)(*)(*)(*) sure the guy is competent enough to stand trial. Unlike some people I have no desire to be a party to some Nazi show trial. Several posters have come into this thread and echoed my thoughts. I didn't condemn them.
Here's how I see it: if you kill a person or multiple people while "insane" and are too crazy to stand trial, then the trial should be held without you. The lawyer stands in for you, and evidence and testimonies proceed as normal. If it's determined that your form of insanity is a threat to society overall, the suggested treatment could involve a bullet through the head or perhaps multiple ones if necessary.
Read the Constitution. Everyone is protected by the Constitution. You don't get to pick and choose who get's Constitutional protections.
On the contrary. I am VERY much in support of the Constitution of the United States. SECOND Amendement! Meaning, I would NOT be in favor of a president doing an Executive Order to take away any of those rights. How 'bout you? And you have all the trust in the world to let TWO psychiatrists make the decision after a 2 hour interveiw that the person is not mentally fit to stand trial? You DO know, don't you, that these psychiatrists get paid by the defense lawyers and they don't use them unless they give the evaluation they want, right? What kind of justice for the victims when this happens? How many times have we read where psychiatrists said someone was cured and released them....only to have them commit yet another crime. It's not a proven science in that evaluations are based on opinion. Evidently, I don't trust the system quite as much as you do. I'm a victims advocate. And I believe the system is too often played in favor of the criminal...and NOT the victims. NOT in every case, of course. But often enough, IMHO. Why would you? They "echoed" your thoughts.
Actually, I think this kind of illustrates why it doesn't matter. By definition, being a mass murderer is insane. Therefore, insanity shouldn't be a defense. It should be an indictment.
Well sane people can do that. Just as insane people can be totally harmless. This is why people are evaluated by trained psychiatrists... not internet forums. johnnymo, I am not referring specifically to you but just making a general statement. The torches and pitchforks attitude I have seen displayed in this thread is very disturbing. I mean where does it end? Doctors and the legal system make mistakes and I think we should be vigilante and question both. But the uninformed sweeping statements I've seen in this thread by a bunch of internet warriors is not constructive. Aside from confining someone like that to a facility where they cannot be a threat to others or themselves what more can you do? Have you ever worked with severely mentally ill people? You can't punish them. It's not like you are going to clear up voices in their head with beatings. If someone had a severe form of schizophrenia and they killed someone close to me I would be pretty upset but what can you do other than questioning why the system didn't prevent the murder from happening. That's why people are focusing on guns and mental health services. Because these people are out there and there is nothing you can do after the fact. Sometimes you can't even have a trial.
WTF?! The Constitution has more than one Amendment. What is with this morbid fixation? You can't cure schizophrenia with a gun.
How do you indict someone over an illness that they have no control over? Should we start executing people who have infectious diseases?
I believe the requirement is that one must know the difference between right and wrong. Of course, the Columbine killers chickened out and killed themselves.......because they were also cowards. BUT one of them in the stuff he wrote, talked of how "easy" it was to fool his parents. "They boast about concocting their plan under the noses of unsuspecting parents and friends. Dylan recalls a time when his parents walked into his bedroom while he was trying on his trenchcoat to see if it would hide his sawed-off shotgun. KLEBOLD: They didn't even know it was there. Eric tells about a day he was going to go shooting in the mountains. He had his shotgun in a gym bag: it was in his "terrorist bag, sticking out". When he walked by his mother, she saw the butt of the gun but she assumed it was nothing more sinister than his BB gun. Fooling people was a point of pride for both boys, one they gloat about during the video-taping. HARRIS: I could convince them that I'm going to climb Mount Everest, or I have a twin brother growing out of my back. I can make you believe anything. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcripts_of_"The_Basement_Tapes"_of_Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold Now.....please go read the rest of their tapes and writings....and then come back and tell me you would support their lawyer claiming mental illness had they lived to face up to what they did.....
If someone kills a bunch of people because of mental illness, I think that makes it plainly apparent that they are too dangerous for society to keep around. If you want to apply this to AIDS, however... Well, someone who knowingly infects other people with HIV should be charged the same as someone committing murder.
And if someone has TB or SARS or the Bird Flu or some other infectious disease and could potential kill a bunch of people, should we just execute them? No, we isolate them from society so they can't hurt anyone. Why can't this be the case for dangerious mental illness? Why do they need to be killed for something out of their control?
No one is arguing with that. There are straight forward procedures to commit someone against their will. In fact it is far easier to do than having a trial. Well no. Murder results in immediate death. They should be guilty of some kind of assault. They will also get cleaned out in a civil suit. If and when the person dies then I think they should be tried for murder. Killing is killing.
That's right. And who is the Obama administration trying to take rights away from? From those who did the murders.....by claiming the "mental competency" defense is overused and not fair to the victims and their familes? Nope. He is ONLY going after the gun industry; the 2nd Amendment. I agree with you----it IS supposed to be for all. But that's not what is happening here.
Well, I guess that all depends on if the disease is curable. If it isn't, then killing them is basically an act of mercy. If I'm not mistaken, TB and SARS can be cured. The same isn't necessarily true for severe mental illness.
How can you possbily compare something like the flu to mass murder? Let me ask you a question? Do you think ALL these mass murderers are mentally incompetent to stand trial? After all, the majority, if not all.......has lawyers that claim that. It's a tool they use. Do you really think they are ALL mentally ill? Please read the transcripts of the audio tapes of Harris and Klebold. I think you'll find out differently. They bragged on how they had their parents and everyone fooled. I think a lot of them are fooling a lot of people. And that's very sad for the victims and their families who don't get the justice they deserve.
True. Making sure they never leave a padded cell is equally acceptable. I see it as attempted murder, and I believe the death penalty should extend to attempted murder (along with violent rapes).
It's all in the eye of the beholder. Besides, what does "will" mean for a person not in control of their actions?
