~ MOD ALERT ~ Iran's response to Israel's latest threats

The US give Israel a massive lump of money, which Israel make interest on, while the Americans pay interest on it.

 

You are behind the times. The Cranston amendment has not been since FY1998. You were also inaccurate in your description.

I suggest you acquire more up to date knowledge. Here is the truth of the matter:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/IB85066.pdf


Your repeated Haiti comparison is spurious.

Any suggestion that Haiti has the same strategic and security value to the US as Israel is ludicrous, let alone that Haiti requires FMF funds.

 

How is Israel of any strategic or security value?

 

Formerly, as a counterance of sorts to the Soviet Union(according to the Washington Think Tank), that and from a geopolitical standpoint the understanding was that Israel could hopefully change the tune of the Middle East, and I'm sure we've all heard the "Beacon of Democracy".

But it's recent actions in the mid-00's(2008 onward) have shown that not only is it not a beacon, but it's a thorn on the side of US Geopolitical Policy. For as long as Israel is joint to our hips(Jack alludes to this from a UK perspective) a peace with Iran, no, scratch that, with any middle eastern country will be close to impossible.

On that same note, Iraq has shown similar instability such as the Shah in Iran, and it will utterly stun the Israelis when they find their Pro-Western invasion of the M.E nations have failed, in much the same as they also finally recognize the miserable failure of the Arab Spring. It's the other way around, America is of grave strategic or security value to Israel. As such, without America(and to a lesser extent, the U.K) Israel would finally be called to action for its geopolitical backpedaling and ethic violations.

As Melanie said, the only hope is a battle for "truth"(More like propaganda) in the hopes of making the English Empires servants of Jewish expansion in the M.E. If we Americans ever break free, the world will have a geopolitical shift in the right direction.

 

Jebus.. the Israelis' conduct nearly drove the ME into the arms of the Soviets more than once since the 1950s.

 

No.

No chance, because.....


***

TILLAWI Mordechai, there are a lot of nations that have nuclear weapons. What is it about Israel having them that makes you so nervous?

VANUNU Because Israel wants to use them, to cause genocide and holocaust on other innocent citizens. It has always been a part of Israel’s secret policy. And also by having them, Israel will use them as a threat to avoid making peace with the Arab world as well as imposing her policies on those peoples. As long as she has them, she will continue on in her policies of not making peace, of occupation and of neglecting the Palestinian suffering caused by the refugee camps that have existed for more than 50 years.


But I am sure Vanunu is a "white supremacist" that wants to "kill all the Jews", so let's read on....


TILLAWI One of the Israeli professors said a few months ago that ‘we have the nuclear capability of hitting every major European city,’ is that true to your knowledge?



VANUNU Yes, it is true. They can bombard any city all over the world, and not only those in Europe but also those in the United States, and by this threat what they are doing is to send a secret message to any leader and to any government that they have the ability to use them aggressively and to blackmail them, to blackmail Europe and the United States, every where, in every state around the world. It was Europe and the United States who helped them get this power, and now that Israel has it, she is coming back and saying to them ‘We will not obey any orders that you give us. No international law, no international agreement, no UN resolutions,’ and all because of these atomic weapons that they have.



My word, what a Nazi and white supremacist he is....


Moving on...


TILLAWI Now, you also have converted from Judaism to Christianity, is that right?

VANUNU Yes


TILLAWI Now, I have a question for you, and I do not want to put you on the spot, but two things happened in your life that are profound. The first is that, according to some people, you betrayed Israel and in their eyes you are considered a traitor, but that is not what I want to ask you about. What I do want to ask you is this: What is the process that went through your head twice in your life? One of them is when you decided to expose the nuclear capability of Israel, your own country, and the other one which is also profound was when you changed your religion to Christianity. Now, those two things are profound and I do not think that there are too many people in the world who have two major shifts in their lives like these. What made Mordechai Vanunu betray his country and then change his religion?


To which he said.....


VANUNU Yes, this is a very good question and very important. You are right, it is not usual to have a person come to these hard conclusions.

As far as my conversion, it started at the very early age of 15 or 16. I was raised in the Jewish religion and in a Jewish family. Israel and Judaism were considered as one nation, one big family, one tribe. I began criticizing and rejecting Judaism over the point of view that these Jews are teaching injustice through their Judaism. In the same way that Jesus Christ also criticized Judaism 2,000 years ago, I was unwilling to accept what they teach, and later converted to the opposite of Judaism. The Jewish tribe teaches that there is only one Chosen people of God.


They teach of their superiority, taking literally word-by-word the writings in the old bible. And I decided therefore that after 2,000 years these ideas were nonsense. There are 6 billion people around the world, and all of them are equal, all are part of the human race. There is no such thing as a super race. We should all respect and love each other, and that was the beginning of my rejecting Judaism and my accepting of Christianity, of following the teachings of Jesus Christ and of accepting humanity. I am not a religious man, I am not going to become a priest. I did all of this for my humanity and for my beliefs. So, I chose my own way and began criticizing the Jewish faith. Those who teach Judaism run the lives of those under them, telling them what they must do every hour of every day, issuing many orders about everything, from waking up in the morning to going to sleep, but at the same time they do not teach them to respect other human beings, to accept non-Jews and to believe that non-Jews are like them. They teach that only the Jews are the chosen people. So, this is Judaism, a collection of primitive traditions thousands of years old that have not changed. The world has changed in the last 2,000 years and the Jewish people need to accept and understand this change, and especially if they want a democratic country. You cannot have a state and run it as they did 2,000 years ago. They came to Palestine in the name of the Bible and in the name of their god and took this land that was promised to them thousands of years ago. In the name of this god, they took the land, expelled the people and gave them hard, cruel, barbaric lives for the last 60 years. This way of thinking, this faith cannot exist within this new age, and it was this that also led me to expose Israel’s nuclear secrets.


http://www.currentissues.tv/VanunuTranscript.html


But I am CERTAIN that a non Jew not from Israel will "know better" and go back to it being a "political problem", or maybe "capitalism"...

 

Of course you did. We all knew that. Jew haters don't marry Jews, just like KKK doesn't marry black women.

If you don't want to be a Jew hater, then stop constantly saying you hate Jews and hate Israel.

 

Originally Posted by Snappo

"It's a shame we care more about international opinion than we do about our own safety. Iran is already making nuclear weapons. In fact, they tested three so far in North Korea. But America will sit quietly by until Iran sells some to Al Qaeda, Hamas, or just drops one in Tel Aviv themselves. Then suddenly USA will have to answer to why they let that happen. Those stupid sanctions clearly aren't working. Three decades of sanctions already and nothing is dissuading them from working towards full scale nuclear weapon production."
***

Fifth time..

Prove it or you are spreading a known lie.

 

I gave you a link that details the strategic relationship and the security benefits from the congressional research service a few posts ago, and then I gave you a detailed explanation of the structure and scope of Israeli FMF.

I also posted a graphic from the washington institute that outlines many of the benefits that the US enjoys from its relationship with Israel, and despite it being factual, Jack went apepoopy because it was written by an ex-AIPAC director. He still is regurgitating his lame objection.

The CRS reports should suffice for those that are actually interested in facts.

 

Of course I know better Jack.

Ya think Vannunu has a few problems with the powers that be in Israel? Ya think he might hold a small grudge? Ya think all that time in jail might have rattled a few braincells?

Ya think Tillawi, a declared anti-semite, jewish conspiracy nutter, is sincere? That he deals in facts? His shows are available on YouTube, and his guest list reads like the whos who of jew hates and holocaust deniers. Hell look up Tillawi on google and then look at what others look up. Duke, Carto, toben, weber, Piper

I recall like it was the day before yesterday - oh it was- when you got your knickers in such a knot because the facts I presented in an easily digestible graphic form were published by an ex-AIPAC director. Seems you claim that the facts presented because of who wrote them were not facts at all. And then you have the nerve to post crap from a well know jew hater and a guy with a massive grudge (not unwarranted mind you) and expect that what comes out of their mouths is gospel.


IN his own words and those of his "guests":
http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/hesham_tillawi/quots.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=2&item=tillawi


I am CERTAIN that a certain non-Israeli, non-jew will respond in this fashion:

[/IMG]

 

So.

Jonsa on the internet knows better than an Israeli nuclear scientist, who was raised as a Jew, and who answered questions from the perspective of an Israeli Jew who is a nuclear scientist, on both why he feels esp anxious about Israel's nukes and why he did the not v common thing of turning his back on Judaism.

Jonsa on the internet knows more about those things, even his own thoughts, than the man himself.

Okay then.

Sure.

You keep telling yourself that, try another stupid picture.

 

You are absolutely hilarious. Although the mirth is fleeting and the residue is odious.

Nonsensical nonsense posted on a well known jew hating holocaust denying site with an interview with a guy who has every reason to hold a grudge. Naturally his 20 odd years in prison, most in solitary would have absolutely no effect on his outlook.

And you have the gall to dimiss actual facts because the author is a jew, and yet accept heinous specious opinion of a former jew (who is still a jew according to your oft stated criteria) as factual.

News flash jack, - not everyone is a stupid or gullible as you think.

 

News flash back the way "Jonsa" - Vanunu knows more than you about Israel and being Jewish.

Get over it.

 

Yes he does.
Naturally your outlook wouldn't be at all effected by "unfair" treatment from supervisors, nor a couple of decades spent in prison, nor the continual hounding after release.

I have nothing to get over. I merely believe that when you publish stuff from known jew hating holocaust deniers and individuals with giant chips on their shoulders, that some semblance of balance and context is required.
Presenting such twisted OPINION as fact, is intellectually dishonest and lazy.
It might serve to feed those predisposed to jew hating but serves little other purpose.

I do not believe that this is "legitimate" anti-zionist criticism.
I believe this to be bigotted anti-jew emotionally charged opinion.

get over the fact that intelligent and/or informed people don't accepts such at face value.

 

Good.

Glad we FINALLY get you to admit that Vanunu knows more than you about Israel and being Jewish.

Cheers

 

Bigoted. Not "bigotted". Does the spell check not work for you on here?

It is you that makes the "emotionally based arguments". I point out facts.

You deem anything that makes you uneasy to be "Jew hate". This is well worn stuff and a clear projection of one's own hate for the gentile.

Which is why one million Jews turned out in Israel this week to mourn a Jewish racist.

Even when presented with hard facts from people you admit better placed to speak than you, even then you have to add some sort of caveat to steer people away from the truth.

No matter what, no matter who, there you are, each and every day, pouring hatred for the non Jew.

Then accusing others of "Jew hate".

Try humility. Try UNDERSTANDING for once, with no clever back chat.


(VANUNU) "Because Israel wants to use them, to cause genocide and holocaust on other innocent citizens. It has always been a part of Israel’s secret policy.

And also by having them, Israel will use them as a threat to avoid making peace with the Arab world as well as imposing her policies on those peoples. As long as she has them, she will continue on in her policies of not making peace, of occupation and of neglecting the Palestinian suffering caused by the refugee camps that have existed for more than 50 years."


*

(VANUNU )"Yes, it is true. They can bombard any city all over the world, and not only those in Europe but also those in the United States, and by this threat what they are doing is to send a secret message to any leader and to any government that they have the ability to use them aggressively and to blackmail them, to blackmail Europe and the United States, every where, in every state around the world.

It was Europe and the United States who helped them get this power, and now that Israel has it, she is coming back and saying to them ‘We will not obey any orders that you give us. No international law, no international agreement, no UN resolutions,’ and all because of these atomic weapons that they have."

*
VANUNU "Yes, this is a very good question and very important. You are right, it is not usual to have a person come to these hard conclusions. As far as my conversion, it started at the very early age of 15 or 16.

I was raised in the Jewish religion and in a Jewish family. Israel and Judaism were considered as one nation, one big family, one tribe. I began criticizing and rejecting Judaism over the point of view that these Jews are teaching injustice through their Judaism. In the same way that Jesus Christ also criticized Judaism 2,000 years ago, I was unwilling to accept what they teach, and later converted to the opposite of Judaism.


The Jewish tribe teaches that there is only one Chosen people of God. They teach of their superiority, taking literally word-by-word the writings in the old bible. And I decided therefore that after 2,000 years these ideas were nonsense. There are 6 billion people around the world, and all of them are equal, all are part of the human race. There is no such thing as a super race.

We should all respect and love each other, and that was the beginning of my rejecting Judaism and my accepting of Christianity, of following the teachings of Jesus Christ and of accepting humanity. I am not a religious man, I am not going to become a priest. I did all of this for my humanity and for my beliefs. So, I chose my own way and began criticizing the Jewish faith.

Those who teach Judaism run the lives of those under them, telling them what they must do every hour of every day, issuing many orders about everything, from waking up in the morning to going to sleep, but at the same time they do not teach them to respect other human beings, to accept non-Jews and to believe that non-Jews are like them. They teach that only the Jews are the chosen people..."

 

You said he was a liar though Jack. Why on earth would you use a lying opportunist to support some silly point of yours ..... well never mind.

 

Jack, I believe there is an undotted 'I' on the military history forum. Can you go fix that for us please.

 

Okay.

Let's rock.

You show me any post, anywhere, in which I said Vanunu was a liar as YOU HAVE JUST CLAIMED.

I will give you ten mins to do this.

Failure to support your accusation will end in a report.

 

Trouble is that he is lying and is only out to make a buck. Just your type of source!

 

Huh? Unlike some, I do not denier when somebody has a superior knowledge to myself about any particular subject. Only an idiot would think that a person born and raised in Israel to jewish parents wouldn't know more about being a jew or more about their homeland.

that said, it in no way validates that person's political and religious opinions. Bin Ladin certainly knew more about Saudi Arabia and being a muslim, but that didn't make his political and religious opinons any more valid or acceptable.

Just something you might want to consider. Especially when making such fatuous remarks.

 

you shouldn't play grammar naziits is unbecoming and has nothing to do with neo-nazism.

In that case, I see that once again you are "thinking for yourself" and redefining the english language.

[que]You deem anything that makes you uneasy to be "Jew hate". This is well worn stuff and a clear projection of one's own hate for the gentile.[/quote]

If that is your preception, you are once again demonstrating how specious jew hate can be or how poor your memory is.

A man can be flawed and still admired. I do agree the guy was a bigot with outmoded ideas.

Jack, I always accept facts. What confuses you is your seeming inablity to seperate fact from opinion from fiction.

No totally mischaracterize my "pouring hatred on non jews". I pour hate on jew haters. I give them back some of their own medicine and expose their intellectual bankruptcy. I pour hate on religious bigots and perverts.

that you would consider you and your small like minded cadre in this community to be representative of all non-jews is truly ironic.

Humility? I do understand, which is what gets your nose out of joint so often.

Seems there are some who not only don't buy jew hating crap gleaned from plethora of jew hating and holocaust denying sites, but are more than adequately equipped to expose the paucity of intellect and the profoundity of ignorance that such content exhibits.

So vannunu thinks that Israel wants to nuke its neighbours?
I do agree that the sampson option has always been part of Israels military doctrine, but that hardly qualifies as wanting to nuke people.

It appears you wish to take such outrageous statements at face value without actually considering them within the context of realpolitik.

Only an idiot would believe that anyone want to use nuclear weapons.
Especially since everyone with nukes knows that they couldn't possibly get away with it.

 

......

I believe your hero is Jewish to some degree Jack therefore, you have stated he is a liar. I trust you will include your error about this lying individual and how you were mistaken about him and that he is no support for your contentions because of that in your 'report.'

Thanks for making this easy Jack.

 

Show me when I stated VANUNU was a liar, Drew.

Actually quote it.

This is the third time I have asked.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter what you think, this is my point.

He was an Israel nuclear scientist. You are not and never have been, nor will you ever be.

 

I did Jack. Are you unable to read?