Scott Lively takes credit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Lively In March 2009, Lively, along with evangelical activists Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge, arrived in Kampala to give a series of talks. "The theme of the event, according to Stephen Langa, its Ugandan organizer, was 'the gay agenda that whole hidden and dark agenda' and the threat homosexuals posed to Bible-based values and the traditional African family".[4] "[T]housands of Ugandans, including police officers, teachers and national politicians," reportedly attended the conference.[4] Lively and his colleagues "discussed how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how 'the gay movement is an evil institution' whose goal is 'to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity.'"[4] Lively wrote days later that "someone had likened their campaign to 'a nuclear bomb against the gay agenda in Uganda.'"[4] The talks inspired the development of a private member's Anti-Homosexuality Bill in the Ugandan parliament.[19] The bill, submitted in November 2009, called for the death penalty in some cases, and received international opprobrium.[19][20][21] Lively expressed disappointment that "the legislation was so harsh."[4] "Lively says he recommended an approach rooted in rehabilitation, not punishment and says an anti-gay bill being considered by the Ugandan Parliament goes too far":[22] [M]y advice to the parliament was to go the other direction from what they did to actually go on a proactive positive message promoting the family, promoting marriage, etcetera, through the schools, and that if they were going to continue to criminalize homosexuality that they should focus on rehabilitation and not punishment. And I was very disappointed when the law came out as it is written now with such incredibly harsh punishments.[22] Lively has said that he will endorse the bill if the death penalty is removed.[23] In March 2010, Lively wrote: In my view, homosexuality (indeed all sex outside of marriage) should be actively discouraged by society -- but only as aggressively as necessary to prevent the mainstreaming of alternative sexual lifestyles, and with concern for the preservation of the liberties of those who desire to keep their personal lifestyles private. Marriage-based culture served humanity very favorably during the centuries when homosexuality was disapproved but tolerated as a sub-culture in America, England and elsewhere. It has obviously not fared well in the decades since the so-called sexual revolution kicked open Pandoras Box and unleashed both rampant heterosexual promiscuity and "Gay Pride" on the world.
Stick with and back up your previous BS when challenged instead of dashing off to your next helping of BS.
It certainly is not just Scott Lively nor was it at the time. These are scary people. They believe that taking control of all areas of secular life is a Christian Mandate. They influence African's because of their old culture of demons and voices - gays are a demon and they preach eradication of demons - that is the eradication of gays. That is pretty self explanatory. They teach the African's that the reason they are suffering poverty and so on is not because capitalism or corruption but because of the demons they have allowed in their society through homosexuals and birth control/abortions. OK if we get to those who were involved in trying to get the death penalty in Uganda apart from Scott Lively http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf However, homophobia does not have a history in Africa and luckily this young lady's grandmother came to the rescue and said a dead uncle was inhabiting her body and he wanted to marry a woman. After that she was treated with respect and invited to drink wine with the men. Yes of course people denied that this was what they had been up to but that is what it is lies. The Ugandans were very upset that the Conservative Christians and neo con's who had been teaching them how this was neo colonisation trying to plague Africa with demons, that is homosexuals, then retracted this. It is unfortunately a mistake to believe that these Neo Conservatives denying this was what they wanted brought a hint of decency into the situation. If my memory is right, Uganda then went straight on to criminalise lesbians, and similar legislation towards homosexuals in Liberia and Nigeria. As with Uganda anyone who witnesses a same sex couple or who offers any help to organisations or clubs to help gays will also face long prison sentences. The Congo, Zambia and Zimbabwe are also bringing in leglislation. For my quotes http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf Seriously since I came upon all this it makes me imagine the US is moving back to the times of 'The Crucible'. Be aware these people want a theocratic state and are building up a power base , even if it is at the moment mainly in Africa with them crying in the US that they are not allowed to discriminate and abuse people. They are hot on the toes of these African countries as they write new constitutions, looking to see if there is anything in the constitution which could possibly allow a gay person to move towards getting any rights. They have law firms and what not. They are now trying to silence the UN. I can remember hearing about these nutters maybe about 20 years ago. I am left now wondering how much their propagana has effected others. This guy denied he had anything to do with it as well and he certainly knew what he was doing, old time white supremacist in South Africa and Rhodesia supporter. After these countries, got there freedom he was involved in diamond dealings with war criminals and dictators.
Scott Lively is probably gay and will show up in some airport bathroom scandal in the future... Ask yourself why a man of some political stature gets $130K a year in grants to convert gays to straight?
All irrelvant to the legislation enacted in 1950 in Uganda imposing a life sentence for homosexual acts.
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I missed this. countries which were colonised by the British are the countries which have been shown to be those most likely to have laws against homosexuality. It seems to have been something the British brought with them. Although the French did sometimes make rules against Homosexuality to keep people in order, they themselves had had it legal since the 18th Century. In Uganda for instance there are bush drawings of homosexuals, there is reference towards them in materials found and they frequently were believed to be the soul of a diseased. They were included in society. You can get some of the idea of the British Background here http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/lgbt1208webwcover.pdf This is well documented. Not however all Christians. Progressive Christians who for instance worked for liberation of countries, who work for the good of the planet, who work for help for HIV/Aids, who work to get health services for all and education for all and who work for equality including equality of LBGT are clearly not involved in spreading hatred of gays abroad. Indeed they themselves are the very people being blamed by the neo cons and Conservative Christians for the very existence of homosexuality in Africa. They claim it is a figment of these Christian's neo imperialist imagination with which they wish to destroy Africa with all the demons associated with homosexuality which will be set lose and destroy their ability to make money by being Christian. Definitely not anything to do with decent Christians who believe in Social Witness and helping the world. Of course the irony is that the Progressive Christians are the ones who acted against colonialism while these Conservatives were aiding the white repressive countries to steal their resources and treat them as lesser people. The One British Colonised country which has not come out as anti gay is South Africa thanks to the insights of Nelson Mandela. Malawi recently taken over by a woman who was of his thinking, is intending on not punishing anyone for these laws which were created before she became president, though it is believed it is going to be difficult to get rid of them and she is constantly under attack. Certainly though there is plenty of evidence that this is being manufactured by neo conservatives and a network of American Christian Right through a mixture of bribery, lying that Progressive Christians are neo imperialists - always one to get rile people up, and managing to gain control of education and books on the subject. http://www.politicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/10/Colonizing-African-Values.pdf Ok Rev, I can see you are not in agreement with this. With regards Islam. Certainly extremists kill gays. It is probably a death sentence in Saudi Arabia - margot can tell us. However there is also evidence that throughout history homosexuals have been accepted in Islam. I don't want to get into that on this thread as obviously that requires it's own research. Regarding Africa both Muslims and Christians need to gain an understanding of sexuality. However research showed that there was no more likelihood of homosexuality being illegal simply because it was a Muslim country. The one thing which made it more illegal was having been colonised by the British and their anti homosexual laws. That now should be getting put right. Islam has it's own problems going on in the world at the moment. However what concerns me here is that American Neo Cons and American Christian Right are working hard through africa to get both homosexuality and contraception/abortion illegal in Africa and through it having the largest Christian Congregation to also effect Christianity world wide. It was new and shocking to me too. You will discover if you read the paper I gave you that these Christians want a Theocratic State and believe religion should be in control of all aspects of life. At base they seem much the same as radical Muslims to me. Maybe worse than you previously thought.
You mean like Uganda, where the penal code act of 1950, adopted from British colonial law made homosexuality punishable by life in prison. Odd that you now blame American preachers for Ugandan law that makes homosexuality punishable by life in prison.
You are trolling this thread. That reply was not to you and this thread is not on that. If you want to start a thread on that, do that. In the meantime this thread is on the OP and most certainly does involve the work of neo cons and the Christian Right. You ignore all that is written and sources provided and keep coming back to a law 63 years ago when Uganda was under colonial rule. That is not the topic of this thread. As I said if you want to start a thread on that, do so. We are dealing with laws passed about 2 weeks ago. Now stop trolling the thread or you will be reported. This has been going on for too long.
No, it is not the same law. Uganda is no longer one of our colonies. Had she been we would have legalised gay sex in 67 or 68 when we did our own. The law which was passed a couple of weeks ago follows on from the 'Kill Gays' attempt in 2009/10 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/20/uganda-anti-gay-law-life-imprisonment Now from what I can gather most countries just let people get on with their lives before colonisation. It was the British who brought with them the fear and hostility concerning gays though I understand they only spoke about 'buggery' which according to Stephen Fry is a practise more commonly carried out by heterosexuals than gays. What we have is countries which have been colonised for a long time forgetting their history. In this way Nelson Mandela was quick to point out that prior to their colonisation they used to get up to all kinds of things and they were all accepted. Everyone was included. Desmond Tutu confirms this. As I said, if Uganda was still under British Colonial rule she would have no anti gay laws and agenda. Instead like many other African countries she does, even thinking of the death Penalty, producing such hate that lesbians are gang raped in the streets and known gays attacked....and this from a country which is genuinely working to give equal rights to all it's people. Enter the IRD. The Institute on Religion and Democracy is one of the main organisations promoting homophobia in Africa. It is a well funded neo conservative think tank that opposed the African Liberation Struggle The way in which it has managed this is by selling the line that LGBT is a neo imperialist trick by progressive Christians. Very clever line and unfortunately one too easily bought...and yes, it is bought. Bought with heaps of money to corrupt political and Christian leaders. Given to them personally with no questions asked...and that is how they are involving themselves in neo colonialism in Africa with the intent on taking over the Christian Church through African's who are at their bidding. It has had the added benefit for neo cons and Christian Right of making progressive Christians unpopular. Hence African's are not open to their social witness programs promoting social and economic justice and looking after the planet. Suits the neo cons real well. Of course they are taught that Christianity will itself provide prosperity - changed a long way from when I was a kid and it was easier for a camel than a rich man to get through the eye of a needle!! But that is how it is. Gay's are demons and must be got rid of. Gay's will harm their societies. It is allowing demons in the form of gays to be living in their society that is the cause of their poverty not capitalism and corruption. That is what the neo Cons and the Christian Right teach in Africa through broadcasts and education at every level. They milk the resentment of colonialism and try and present themselves as the true voice of American Evangelicalism News coverage in the US glosses over the cross continental alliance within Christianity and also neglects to point out the abuse of LGBT in countries whose churches are players in the US church conflicts. Yes, it is true that Britain spread her hatred of homosexuality to those countries she colonised. On becoming free it was up to them to reassess things. In South Africa it was immediately evident that anti gay legislation was colonial and that their own history accepted people of different sexual orientations However neo con's saw a nice little way to stop the social witness of mainstream churches which itself was at the forefront of ending apartheid in South Africa. By using the hatred towards anything considered colonial they could create a mistrust of progressive churches. They could do this by promoting hatred towards LGBT and creating the lie that this was a neo imperialist trick of progressive Churches. African countries have a need to do research into sexuality but this so far has not been permitted and given that to even know someone who is gay is even becoming an offence is unlikely to be in the future though many interviewed in Africa recognise that this is necessary. For the neo cons and the socially conservative Christians what they achieve is the end of social witness by Progressive Christians making the way open for exploitation while they are conditioned to believe that the only reason they suffer is because of demons created by themselves - for instance allowing gays to live - the lies of the Christian Right. This attitude stops Africa being a socially active country for change in the world. The second thing it does is destroy the power of mainline churches allowing the domination of the Christian Right including those whose intent is to create Theocratic States including in the US. Some of their organisations http://www.publiceye.org/publicatio...frica-full-report.pdf#page=10&zoom=auto,0,594 Now if you want to answer this I suggest you argue the material which has been presented.
I thought it hadnt yet been signed by the President, prime minister, whatever yet. Regardless, its the same law that applied up until 2 weeks ago and my point remains the same. What you can gather about before colonialization is irrelevant. What you can gather from the day before this new law was enacted is whats relevant here. The day before, homosexuality was punishable by a life sentence. The day after, homosexuality was punishable by life in prison. You cant blame US preachers for what was already in place.
Dixon, when are you going to start being honest with us. What is really bothering you about gays and gay rights? Why do you keep putting yourself and the rest of us through these mental gymnastics to justify discrimination against gays. Tell us more about yourself and maybe we would understand - be more tolerant of you? How old are you? What state/ country are you in and from?
Nothing at all. When are you going to start talking about the topic of discussion and stop talking about your favorite topic, ME?
You are actually my least favorite topic. So nothing is bothering you about gays? Really? You sound very bothered to me, but maybe I'm just reading you wrong. I kind of lost tract of what your position actually is amidst all of this blathering about the Declaration on Human Rights, Reproduction and what ever else it is that you go on about. Why don't we start anew.....give us a clear, concise and cogent policy statement on gay rights. If you had the power, what would you do, what rights would you grant or withhold and why? Please be very specific and well take it from there .What about Uganda since that is what this thread is about. You have your theory about what is behind the current law but I've lost tract of what your position on it is. And, my invitation for you to share more about yourself is still there
Are you straight and regardless, what does it have to do with the total person who you are? I obviously have strong opinions on gay rights but people should not draw any other conclusions about me based on that. I don't answer that question unless it's coming from someone who wants a date. For a straight person to respond " no I'm not " when the question comes from someone who harbors animosity towards gays only feeds into their homophobia , or bigotry, or whatever. I like to let them stew. Are you friend or foe??
Do you eat shellfish? Wear 2 different materials at the same time? Was your wife (or were you, if you are female) a virgin on the night of your wedding? Do you advocate death by stoning for those who are not? Unless your answers are no, no, yes, and yes, then you too are not following "His Word".
Why do you want to know?? Still not getting where you're coming from on this.....You're not revealing yourself either. Not even your position on gay rights while I have clearly and constantly stated mine..
I am opposed to them. Rights should NOT be based upon being gay. I am for human rights. Rights for citizens.
