The Holocaust Question, Pre WW2 Germany, and the Horrific Fate of Post WW2 Germans

In 1920 McKay wrote that the Jewish immigrants to Palestine were Bolshevic to a man.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm

 

Look at how you speak to people about it...like a vicious snob.

Regardless, their claims have merit and no real evidence has been shown to prove that the holocaust happened to the extent that it did. There's holocaust deniers, yeah, but I'm talking about people who claim that the severity of the holocaust is to be questioned. Not only have they been harrassed every step of the way during their research by people like you who hop onto this righteous, poop-slinging defense of the holocaust, but they can't even really press their investigation because everythings been declared illegal. They can't access records, they can't investigate the site, or any of it because it's declared illegal.

But, I guess we live in that time period where it's becoming illegal to question the official story. When you can make a story, then outlaw scrutiny, that's intellectual dishonesty.

* And the link you provided is not proof of anything...it's just an uncontested monolgue.

 

In the hope that someone who is a holocaust denier might read this...

Please answer that to me.

I posed the question a while back, yet it doesn't seem to get answered...

 

Why don't you prove me with the scientific studies that show how the various ovens at Auschwitz I and II were able to cremate the 1.1 million people that you claim. This could easily be done by independant (that is those outside the Holocaust industry) researchers using replica ovens and pig carcases.

Is that the best you can do, attack the messangers? Weak.

Those with advanced degrees in history may as well be trying to prove that the creaures from Homers "Odyssey" existed. Anyone in the scientific community that dares to challenge powerful people who run the Holocaust industry, who also control the majority of the Western Mass Media, will certainly be crucified. They face the same retribution as those who claimed the earth was round back 600 years ago. Who besides those you have listed would be so brave?

And why can only the Jewish Holocaust experts be trusted? They have already gotten away with revising any and all figures they please, on non-existant evidence---and have never faced a single slap on the wrist. How can they change the facts so dramatically and so often and not face a single consequence?

And what is the motive for keeping the inflated numbers of pirmarily Jewish victims high???

Revenge. The Nazis were no friends of the Jews.

Sympathy. Being the world's supervictims allows anyone that anyone who challenges them to be a racist or anti-Semite.

And #1, Money. Some 40 Billion in reparation payment have been milked from the German people over the years. There have been at least 200 films made about the Holocaust in the West, yet not a single significant film has been made about the Holodomor or the genocides in Turkey in WW1 or China in the 1960's. Only a scant few films have been made about the genocide in Cambodia by Pol Pot. The one major film about it, "The Killing Fields" was as anti-Nixon as it was anti Pol Pot. Makes you wonder you has the most influnece in the media.

So, again where is your expert, independant, scientific studies supporting cremation rates at Auschwitz I and II?

 

Now if you were continously running these ovens, as they would have to be doing to cremate the 2,300 people a day (as the newest version goes). You would have to get right next to the ovens to retrieve to the charred bones and ashes next to the ovens---and to rearrange the bodies to put more in. Now some of the Auschwitz II had litters with rails on them so as the workers didn't have to face the 1400 degree F temps when placing the bodies in the ovens.



Now the workers would have to be constantly next to these ovens to empty the lower ash bin---and then take the remaining large bones out and crush them. Crematory workers didn't have the special aluminum aprons and other protective gear as in the youtube video. The workers would have faced being killed by these ovens being that close. Those who work around industrial ovens say that being next to closed oven operating at 1400 degrees F would begin to cause burns after 10 seconds.

I'll ask you now, do you have any independant, scientific studies done on replica Auschwitz ovens that prove that each muffle opening could burn 8 people an hour for 24 hours?

 

Yep that is right on both counts. I am both vicious in attacking moronic holocaust denialists and I am an intellectual snob when confronted by such intellectual dishonesty from jew haters and Nazi apologists.

5. Sticks and Stones -- If you're being wiped out with evidence and reasoning you cannot refute, you can always take refuge in complaining about the language being used by your adversaries. For example, if they say, "I've already explained that it takes less gas to kill people than lice, and therefore there are fewer cyanide residues remaining on the gas chamber walls than on the delousing chamber walls, you moron," you can respond by complaining about their use of the word "moron." You can actually evade quite a bit of serious discussion by spending a lot of time condescendingly lecturing the newsgroup about their use of trashy language. But this approach doesn't work very well in building credibility. You may view yourself as an arbiter of social discourse but you'll actually come off like a den-mother scurrying around excoriating the little Cub Scouts to behave themselves.

What a ridiculous and obvious pile of excrement. You obviously are completely ignorant of the "holocaust denial" laws in Europe. Your totally incorrect interpretation is yet another example of the intellectual dishonesty denialists unknowingly display on a consistent basis.

There isn't a SINGLE law that prevents academic research and investigation into the holocaust.
NOT ONE AND THE HUGE AMOUNT OF MATERIALS THAT HAVE BEEN PRODUCED BY THOUSANDS OF ACADEMICS GIVE PROOF THAT YOUR STATEMENT IS AS STUPID AS IT IS DISHONEST.

I find it interesting that you are that clueless about something that is so easily proven but by all means lets see what lame evidence you have gleaned from IHR or some other klown site that supports this ridiculous accusation.

1. Creamed Mush with Fog Sauce -- Never provide evidence for your assertions. In fact, respond to demands for evidence the way Dracula responds to crucifixes. Do anything you can to avoid it. Throw insults. Change the subject. Obfuscate. Laugh derisively. Claim you already gave the evidence or that someone else did. But never provide any evidence yourself (unless you provide an incomplete or incomprehensible citation along with it).

See above. Whenever I see such blatant lies it brings to mind this little image, (Please note: I am not suggesting in any way that such sustenance is in anyway exclusive to denialists.)

In and of itself I agree its not proof of anything. What it is a revisionist field manual, reverse engineered by denialist opponents over the years.
The evidence is not in the document but in the demonstrated behaviors and application of these specific tactics by denialists when attempting to denounce the holohoax and rehabilitate Nazism.

You might notice that in my responses to your responses, I have quoted relevant tactics from the document that you yourself are employing.

New to the denialist scene are you?

 

Obviously you concede that your corner retail crematorium has a completely different design and objective than the industrial scale Krema of the death camps.

Are you now suggesting that the Nazi's actually cared about the working conditions of the sonderkommando?


near as I can figure, your argument isn't one (not that you'd notice of course).




Oh look. just more plays outta the playbook.

1. Creamed Mush with Fog Sauce -- Never provide evidence for your assertions. In fact, respond to demands for evidence the way Dracula responds to crucifixes. Do anything you can to avoid it. Throw insults. Change the subject. Obfuscate. Laugh derisively. Claim you already gave the evidence or that someone else did. But never provide any evidence yourself (unless you provide an incomplete or incomprehensible citation along with it).

3. Hello, I'm a Cremation Expert -- Claim that the 52 Auschwitz furnaces could not have had the capacity to burn 4,756 corpses per day because modern commercial crematoriums don't have such a capacity. When its pointed out to you that there's no comparison between ordinary commercial crematoriums and those built in the camps, for a variety of reasons -- e.g. coffins were not used, one can cremate more than one corpse in a single retort, etc. -- ignore this and repeat the claim.


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So let me get this straight: You want me to find an expert, who is independent, who does scientific studies? I think I have the guy for you:

How about Jean-Claude Pressac? I think this would be a nice example of somebody you maybe looking for. Pressac was originally a Holocaust denier who, with Robert Faurisson, attempted to disprove what he considered historically inaccurate depictions of the concentration camps Auschwitz and Birkenau as extermination camps. Upon visiting Auschwitz in 1979, however, Pressac was able to view first-hand the extensive archive of construction documents which had survived due to being located in the construction office rather than the administrative offices. These convinced him that his former views were in error, an event he describes in the postface of Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, saying that he "nearly did away with myself one evening in October 1979 in the main camp, the Stammlager, overwhelmed by the evidence and by despair". He published his conclusions along with much of the underlying evidence in his 1989 book, Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers.

And to clarify something else: 600 years ago few people thought the world was flat and it's a widely spread misconception. Actually it was very well known that the world is round to a great accuracy since Eratosthenes of Cyrene roughly 200 BC. That's why the symbols of world power the pope and the emperor used were always balls. The reason Christopher Columbus had problems finding somebody to finance his trip west, was that Christopher Columbus denied the size of the world and he couldn't convince anybody that the earth is much smaller. There were only 3 papers in the middle ages who argued that the earth is flat, all of them in Arabic and neither translated into any other language. The idea that the people in the middle ages didn't know that the earth is round, was created by the people of the Renaissance, who argued that way their superiority.

Since you claim me attacking the messengers is "weak", I think I need to explain myself. I have two degrees in history and I'm working on my PhD. I specifically work on contemporary history and we were taught, that the first thing you do, before you read anybodies conclusions, is to research what that person has done. Therefore the first research I do is on the author and look if they are qualified to be an authority in that regard. If they have enough evidence to support their claim, it will be accepted by the scientific community.

So on a personal note: It is very frustrating that people with no degree of any kind claim to be bigger authorities on a much researched matter, than my colleagues. Very annoying, because we (as in qualified historians) are then forced to read this BS and disprove it. Whether it's holocaust-denial or claiming the years 500 to 700 never happened (also alternative history) or Hitler's diary (which is fake) or something else. And I still don't understand why people which write alternative history get this much attention anyhow. I don't know if in other sciences this happens as well, where people don't believe the scientists and rather trust the unqualified guy who claims to be a bigger authority.

Therefore I ask you to please look at all the resources, not just one side.

 

I guess your answer then would be NO. There has been no scientic tests done to replicate the cretmations done in concentration camp ovens.

Why don't you ask the US Holocaust Museum to fund the tests. There should no problem with them using pigs of different sizes that approximate the size of humans. The tests should be done in public view. It should be no problem to place two or three pigs inside the small muffels and burn them all in about 15-20 mins. Of course the oven would have to be able to do this continually for 24 hours.

Why hasn't this been done by now?????

 

It hasn't been done because there is no need to replicate these cremations.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/quick-facts/crematorium-capacity.shtml


Here's one that even presents ALL of the denialist so called "evidence" and then rebuts it item by item. You'd think if you could dig up such utter bullcrap from Denialist sites, you could transfer such skills to actually finding real ANSWERS TO ALL OF THE OBFUSCATING QUESTIONS idiot denialists think are unanswered, profound and devastatingly definitive

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.ca/2013/10/viewers-guide-to-auschwitz-surprising_19.html

A thought to ponder:

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Alright then, you say you are intelligent person. I have done 8 years of college and have a background in science and medicine, history is just a hobby. But one needs to do more than look at plans. One in science, must be able to test and REPRODUCE one's hypothesis. This has not been done, because those with enough scientific knowledge know that the tests will fail to support the 2,300+ cremations a day.

Pressac, like the sources that counter him, did not do real world testing. As similar ovens to those in Auschwitz I and II took 55 minutes to cremate a body to a point that it can be removed to pulverize, it would take no vast effort to reproduce these tests using pig or animal carcases---that could be formed into human sizes.

The tests should be funded by Holocaust proponents---but that will not happen. I would recommend any test by funded by interests outside the Holocaust industry. The ovens and physical tests should be done by non-Germans, non-Jews, non-Russian or other non-Westerners who would face retribution by Western and pro-Soviet interests.

A large supply of coke, and at least oven of the exact design as one of the best at Auschwitz II must be used. The laws of phyisics would not allow the full 400 pig or animal carcases to be consumed----at least 400 live animals should be on hand to see if one oven could burn up that many continously in 24 hours---but only kill as many as could be used.

Upon visiting Auschwitz in 1979, however, Pressac was able to view first-hand the extensive archive of construction documents which had survived due to being located in the construction office rather than the administrative offices. These convinced him that his former views were in error, an event he describes in the postface of Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, saying that he "nearly did away with myself one evening in October 1979 in the main camp, the Stammlager, overwhelmed by the evidence and by despair".[1] He published his conclusions along with much of the underlying evidence in his 1989 book, Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers. [2] In his 1993 Les Crématoires d'Auschwitz, [3] he further delineated the operation of the crematoria at Auschwitz, and their integration into the larger Nazi program to eradicate the Jews of Europe. Pressac estimates that between 631,000 and 711,000 were killed at Auschwitz.[4]

Even your "expert" said only 711K Jews were killed there---not 900,000 as the new Auschwitz plauque says .

 

And based on that, it makes sense that the Holocaust never happened?
So I ask the same question again: Why do a hand full of people you select, have more credibility than the world wide scientific community?
You say you have a background in medicine. Do you approve of hobby "doctors" diagnosing illnesses and being more credible than the experts in the field? Even worse in my opinion would be if these hobby doctors would try to operate, but maybe you disagree...

I would like to point out as well, that you asked me (and I'm going to quote here):

So you wanted someone who's not got an advanced degree in history and who's not in any way related to the holocaust. So I chose someone who wanted to prove that the holocaust didn't exist, but failed. Someone who's not jewish, because that seems to be an important criteria for you....

By the way: What is the point of this entire topic anyhow? You really think that there is enough evidence to support the claim that the holocaust didn't exist?

 

Sorry, but your two sources are just emply fluff. No real world testing on human or animal parts.

A waste burner can burn up trash in 15 minutes---so what? A human body with bones and muscles is much thicker. That's why it still takes modern ovens about an hour to reduce the remains of an average person, and longer for a larger persons.

Would you take a drug a company was selling on TV if it wasn't approved by independant drug trials? Or would you just take the word of the manufactures?

 

I have never said that there weren't hundreds of thousands that died in German/Axis concentration camps. Yes, perhaps up to 250,000 civilians interred by the Germans and their allies in their concentration camps did die. There is more than enough evidence to say that is a fact. But the story has been streched---way out from there. Having even this amount of people dying was an unacceptable tragedy---but when the story was expanded and falsified---that became a greater tragedy.

"So you say the Holocaust never happened then?" You say the same line to anyone outside the Holocaust camp that challenges the numbers.

I say, again, "there were at least 70,000 that died at Auschwitz I and II---and maybe 250K in all the concentration camps held by the Axis. But 70,000 wasn't enough for those wanting revenge and payback against the German people---so the stories went on from there.

People lie every day. And if I were put in forced labor camp because of my English/Irish/Amerindian heritage by some other people for several years with 70,000 of my fellow inmates dying---I'd be very temped to say anything for revenge. If my etnic kinsmen were very powerful and could get territory (like Israel), 40 billion in reperations and sympathy---I'd probably look the other way. Or say, "Yeah, that's right, that's what I saw..."

Here in the real world---not of history and fables---there must be peer-reviewed, scientific studies and research to back any theory. Just looking at a diagram or a peice of equipment won't cut it. It must be tested. This goes for any mechanical device. The underwiter labs must test it. You idea of what passes off as "expert" opinion is much different that what is needed to really prove the true limiting factor in the number of camp deaths---the creamatory ovens.

Again, to prove the true output of the ovens one would need a historical expert to bring in a design of at least the best 3-muffle oven at Auschwitz II, having one built of each type would be better, as the ones in Crem V was wood burning, not coke-burning. One would then need an oven manufacturer---an engineer---to build one or more from similar parts: AC Blower motors, firebricks, compressors, chimmney work, door---everything. Workers and engineers would then be monitored for animal testing with a large stock of prepared animals on hand.

All good medical studies are "blinded" so as the persons performing the tests do not know exactly what outcome is desired. So, none of the engineers or workers, or those overseeing the tests could know what the tests are really about.

The test results would then be tabulated by another group of researchers who are not aware these are Holocaust tests.

I would suggest that these tests be run in China or similar areas.

Again, I am only proving that maybe up to 150,000 could have possibly died and be cremated at Auschwitz I and II. And therefore, the stories of the gassing that were supposed to have killed so many thousands each day would automatically be disproved.

The point of the topic, by the way, is that some people are Holocaust Minimalists---like me. If you were an actual historian, you, would demand real world testing. Otherwise, I'd recommend doing works of fiction.

 

I can see what type of person I'm dealing with, so this is basically my last post here...

Notice how you didn't provide any substantial evidence for your own claim. You just snarl down the person criticizing the official story of the holocaust, then you defend all this nonesense by saying being a d**khead is perfectly fine and if they call you out on it, they're wrong. Mike drop...

I'm not the one debating the issue. Neither one of us has done the kind of work necessary to actually debate that issue (unless you want to pretend you did, go ahead). If someone is curious or criticizes the holocaust, let them read both sides for themselves. Don't attack them. You never gave one bit of an argument. Your post is pure attack.

Oh yeah...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

There are laws against Holocaust denial...

 

You can choose to look at it that way, but unfortunately it is just false. Primarily because your "evidence" focuses only on Auschwitz-Birkenau, or to be more precise only on two of the crematoriums there. Because I am a historian, I have to look at all the evidence provided, not just pick and choose. If I wish to be taken seriously in my profession, I also have to make my conclusions based on the sources I had available, even if I personally disagree. I cannot dismiss evidence which would alter my conclusion. In this case numerous testimonies of victims and perpetrators, and the fact that more than 5 million people more are missing than you claim.

The total amount of money Israel got in reparations from Germany since World War 2 is less than what the US gives in foreign aid per year to Israel. Or at least it's very close if you look at it. So Germany didn't pay all that much.

What is your educational background? 8 years of education is nice, but in what fields and where?

But again: Why do a hand full of people you select, have more credibility than the world wide scientific community?

 

I suppose if they had done it with a few hundred Nazi war criminals at the end of the war, there would have been a ready supply of soon to be cadavers, but I can't see many "volunteering" to become cadavers in an experiment with a known outcome. Using pigs would be such a waste of good bacon that it verges on sacrilege.

Since the science is actually fairly settled as per the various analyses I have already pointed you to, your indignant query about why such experiments haven't been done is spurious, specious and stupid.


Yet again, even more of the same from the field manual. Keep insisting without listening. Keep demanding without researching. Keep accusing without evidence. Keep hating beyond reason.

 

Sorry, but not only is it not fluff, you have absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest that the Krema operated any other way.
You accuse thru speculation and simple denial of fact.

If this such a central question to denialists, why haven't they done the "experiment" to prove to the world that the Krema numbers were way off? Could it be because their vaunted Leuchter report they promoted as science for a couple of decades is a complete amateur joke? could it be that the infamous Krege GPR results from Treblinka were so bogus as well? Or let's not forget the famous Ball aerial recon analysis of Baba Yar where he "searched" the wrong area?

You make yourself look more ridiculous with every post. Perhaps one day you'll come up with something us veterans of this farcical debate haven't yet seen. I doubt it since there isn't a denialist alive that is conducting real research, let alone any experimentation.

After the Krema debate, I fully expect you to whip out the ol' Xyklon B was used as a pesticide and wasn't used for any gas chambers.

One day maybe it will dawn on you that it is not a conspiracy. That the Nazi were murderous hateful swine that industrialized murder and stained our collective humanity.

 

you are the one that is questioning the accepted historical analysis, and yet you demand evidence from me, while you supply none. No matter how many times I point out this tactic to you, you simply ignore it and continue to demand evidence that is in massive supply on all of the various denialist topics.

I have been studying and debating and excoriating jew hating Nazi apologizing holocaust denialists for 20 years. I am rather well versed on every one of their arguments and of course all of their tactics.

As to pure attack, yes, I do get that way when confronted with yet another attempt using the same disinformation and disingenuous tactics.

As to laws against holocaust DENIAL, not a single one of them restricts research in any way. Not a single law rejects scientific evidence presented. Not a single law prevents legitimate questioning of any and all facts. that you take those laws and then wholly misrepresent them as evidence that there is a conspiracy to cover up legitimate holocaust research is a reprehensible tactic, not unexpected in the least, but nevertheless reprehensible.

But I know you'll keep trying. By the way nice use of:


1. Creamed Mush with Fog Sauce -- Never provide evidence for your assertions. In fact, respond to demands for evidence the way Dracula responds to crucifixes. Do anything you can to avoid it. Throw insults. Change the subject. Obfuscate. Laugh derisively. Claim you already gave the evidence or that someone else did. But never provide any evidence yourself (unless you provide an incomplete or incomprehensible citation along with it).

2. Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose -- Demand that all evidence for the Holocaust be proved genuine (dodging any discussion of what that proof would consist of), and also demand that all your unsubstantiated assertions be proved false. That way, you never bear any burden of proof. (originally posted by Mike Stein)

3. Hello, I'm a Cremation Expert -- Claim that the 52 Auschwitz furnaces could not have had the capacity to burn 4,756 corpses per day because modern commercial crematoriums don't have such a capacity. When its pointed out to you that there's no comparison between ordinary commercial crematoriums and those built in the camps, for a variety of reasons -- e.g. coffins were not used, one can cremate more than one corpse in a single retort, etc. -- ignore this and repeat the claim.

5. Sticks and Stones -- If you're being wiped out with evidence and reasoning you cannot refute, you can always take refuge in complaining about the language being used by your adversaries. For example, if they say, "I've already explained that it takes less gas to kill people than lice, and therefore there are fewer cyanide residues remaining on the gas chamber walls than on the delousing chamber walls, you moron," you can respond by complaining about their use of the word "moron." You can actually evade quite a bit of serious discussion by spending a lot of time condescendingly lecturing the newsgroup about their use of trashy language. But this approach doesn't work very well in building credibility. You may view yourself as an arbiter of social discourse but you'll actually come off like a den-mother scurrying around excoriating the little Cub Scouts to behave themselves.

14. If you don't want to look like a total buffoon, there's always the pseudo-academic, above-the-fray approach. With a huge dose of arrogance and superiority, explain that you are neither a revisionist nor any other "label", merely someone with a healthy skepticism about everything, including Holocaust history (ALL of it), and that you are conducting your own research to determine for yourself whether certain Holocaust incidents actually took place. Pretend to be totally impartial (despite the avalanche of Holocaust evidence you would encounter the minute you actually began any legitimate research), but in your posts only question the Holocaust historians' statements, not revisionists' statements

17. Although all of your arguments will be consistently blown to smithereens, just wait a few days or weeks and then re-post them.

18. Remember that the revisionist community is peopled mainly by racists, white-supremacists, Israel-bashers, and Nazis. This means that everyone except these kinds of people will dismiss you. But don't let that stop you. Don't let your Fellini-esque, internally inconsistent, un-researched, hypocritical distortions and lies prevent you from continuing to post. After all, you're fighting for the truth (as you'd like it to be).


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It took me over an hour to read the report I gave you. It included data on the 5 different crematorums at the two camps. You obviously didn't read the report. So even if the author Carlo Mattogno is some "Jew Hating" bigot---his data must be refuted.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

There is no question Zyclon B was used in the camps, and the same chemical used to delouse was the same used to supposedly gas victims. With much of the camp destroyed---and the scenes of the crimes under control of the Soviets and their stooges for 45 years---any "physical eveidence" could not be admissable in modern courts.

So unless you and those historians running the Holocaust industry (the vast majority of them Jews themselves) verify the capacities of these ovens at Auschwitz I and II with independant, scientific studies using actual reproduction ovens with animals parts or various sizes---heresay evidence is not enough. Burn pit test should also be attempted with animal parts.

However, these tests have already been done by Mattogno---and of course, they show that that ovens and burn pits didn't perform as the pathological liars in the industry said they did. Unless INDEPENDANT research is done under controlled contiditions, historians can never prove the weak link in their story of 2300 or more victims being cremated a day by up to 5 differnt crematoriums with 52 muffels.

Here are some crude versions of the tests I would like done. Even though I know you won't look at it:

http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Mattogno64-72.html

By the way, I work in the biomedical field with degrees in biology and chemistry among others. However, I also grew up on a cattle farm, worked with animal disposal, was in the US Army and worked on SAM missile systems---among many other jobs and hobbies over the years.

 

I see now that this topic and this discussion has no end because you're unwilling to address anything people tell you. You ignore the repeated question I pose, you ignore the arguments which are brought forward, you argue the same stupid thing although it is repeatedly dismissed, and I feel it's a just waste of my time. They sentenced hundreds of people to death for the crimes done in those concentration camps, and they had long trials for some of them. Look at some of them at least, or do you think this was done with falls evidence and the people were send to prison for life and put to death for no reason? Some people have real historic questions I really try to answer, but this makes no sense. It feels like that the objective here is only to argue, not to debate.

I told you that no historian or someone who wishes to be taken seriously will base the entire history of the Holocaust on two crematoriums in Auschwitz. Look at more evidence than that. At least look at one of the trials. Maybe the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials in 1963-65 if nothing else, when Germans were sentencing Germans, and they used EVIDENCE!

What you're using is called alternative history. And we call it that because someone with a clear political agenda puts forward a concept, and than tries to prove it, and ignores everything which would argue something else. This is not how science is done.

This can be done with every subject possible, but it still doesn't make them true. We (as in Germans and Austrians) stole from the European Jewish community for sure more than we payed in reparations, you can be sure of that. The Nazis didn't care about names or personal things when they send them to their deaths, but everything which had any value was neatly cataloged and send back into the Reich. So no matter how ignorant you may choose to look at this, it has no foundation on any level.

Before WW2 10.2 million Jews were living in Europe, after WW2 only 4.5 million were alive. Go figure...

 

I assume you're talking to me. And of course, you can only believe what you are comfortable believing in. You belive there were no records kept for those who went right off the trains and into the gas chambers and ovens. You also believe only the population figures you want to beleive---so as to "reverse engineer" the figures to fit with the 6 million story.

Again, you haven't a bit of independant scientific proof to support your claim of 2,300+ people being cremated in a single day---AND you and the Holocaust industry in toto are too decietful to allow any real testing done. This is why there are laws that forbid free speech on this subject in your nation and others.

Sorry but only a prejudiced or very igonorant person could believe that the Neuremburg, Dachau and other trials that only targeted Axis members, that only allowed judges from the victorious countries run the tribunals---and that also claimed that 4 million were killed at Auschwitz---(that even you say is a lie)---were examples of "justice." What a joke.

Here's a little WW2 tidbit you can research: How many of the millions of Allied sodiers serving during WW2 have ever been convicted of a war crime against enemy troops and civilians?

And the answer is ----- zero! Isn't that amazing. Of course the German government since WW2 are just as biased and anti-Nazi as the Allies were in WW2 and to this day are finding non-German axis members---80 to 100 year old conscripts and others who may have served at concentration camps and are putting them on trial. Of course Soviet war crimes are vast---but anyone like yourself with a warped concept of ture justice I'm sure has not lost any sleep knowing none will face judgement. This is called "victor's justice."

As far as your population figures go---they are subjective---and not everyone is in agreement:

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=85432

Try to keep safe in Austria and remeber there are no penalties for lying to support the Final Soution Theory.

 

There are just too many errors in your one post to even address them all.

1. Again, you are only using Auschwitz to judge what happened to many millions outside that death camp
2. Misinformation on the facts: The nazis documented the number of people coming to the concentration camps, but only the ones selected for work were given a "number" which we can trace to a name today, the rest was killed off to quickly and is therefore harder to trace.
3. I don't believe the figures you claim, that's a difference. I said: "our best estimate is ..." The true number will probably forever remain unknown.
4. Nobody "reverse engineers" unless they are the people from alternative history you seem to respect. Historians have to prove facts!

And that was only the first paragraph.

I just want you to realize something, which shell be my last post in this stupid argument, as I see you are just trying to argue.

In 1946 Germany wasn't Nazi free. I really thought that was common sense, that if regime change happens not everybody changes their beliefs over night. Germans protected their own after the war. Whether it was people like Theodor Oberländer who were in clear sight and in political office after the war, or Dr. Joseph Mengele who went to visit Germany a few times after the war, or Werner von Braun who was reused as a "great scientist" in the US, or ODESSA, which was an organization to hide Nazi criminals. Germans and the politicians just kept looking away, where these people were, in order to protect their own. This is especially obvious with Oskar Schindler, who was a savior of 1200 Jews and who was also known, but became an immediate social outcast because he was a "Juden-Küsser" (=jew kisser in English).

In order to convince maybe a few hundred people who are crazy enough to dismiss the conclusions of the entire world wide scientific community, you want a few million dollar study to be done, which will be refused anyhow, because people who dismiss the mountains of evidence available, will dismiss one more stone as well.

It is just more beneficial for all of us, and I include myself, to just move on and ignore those who claim the Holocaust didn't happen, just as we ignore those who claim dinosaurs and humans lived together like in the Flintstones. It is just as ridiculous to argue either of those, because it's clear some people are just unwilling to except facts. I don't understand the point of this however. I cannot imagine people being stupid enough to believe either of those, so I have to assume there is a purpose in this, and I cannot figure out what. Maybe so we don't research other areas?

 

Just as I thought---you can't come up with any Allied war criminals tried and punished for actions against the enemy.

Just as I thought---you only rely on the Holocaust industry for your figures. I imagine if anyone were to to try to run any scientific cremation tests in your country you would have them arrested and charged for heresay.

Germany and Austria today are still under the boot of historical senorship---maybe not as bad as the Spanish Inquistion---but bad enough. I would suspect you are closely linked to Neo-Communist ideology---given your paranoid fears of Nazism. Germany sold out her own, but was in no position to protest bad treatment after WW2. I guess you are disappointed that von Braun was allowed to help mankind in the space program and not instead put on an Allied War Crimes show trial and executed. In your understanding, Allied leaders like Bommer Harris and Curtis LeMay who wiped out hundreds of thousands of civilians in terror-bombing raids deserve all the honor and decorations bestowed on them. I don't cut people a break for their actions based on their nationality or ethnicity---unlike you.

Bye, and have a nice day.

 

Just as I thought.

You simply refuse to face reality and instead blindly embrace Nazi apologism and jew hatred from IHR, truthseeker, VHO etc.

People who have been PROVEN to be quacks but yet you invest them with some sort of strange infallibility.

The holocaust isn't an industry. It is an historical event.

yes, I'm familiar with Finklestien's book and the manner in which denialists and Nazi scumbags have attempted to use it as a bumper sticker meme that the Nazis weren't murderous racist ********s and their bad rap has been solely based on jews wanting to more money, attention, etc.

I'll admit as fallacious memes go this one is marginally successful since it sure does get the goose steppers all hot and bothered.


"paranoid fears of Nazism". spoken like a apologist. you are as predictable as the sun rising in the east.