"Growing up godless"--America's secular families raising kids are doing "quite well"

Secularism is basically materialism.

All we are and all the World around us, are nothing more than the constituent components which make it up.

Let's delve deeper, into the material World around us, there is a quantum World which exists in a state of probabilities, the observer effect basically defines the probable into the known. We are therefore limited to defining things based upon what the observer effect reveals. We cannot observe things as they are, but only as they are observed to be.

Thomas Aquinas once said, "God is that which cannot be defined"

Long before quantum mechanics, Thomas Aquinas defined God as an entity possessing quantum traits.

We cannot truly define the material world, or even ourselves because the mere act of existing effects the reality around us.

God exists, possibly, outside of the observer effected reality we define as our material Universe, our material selves.

 

Can you prove otherwise? Every time one hears of a gang member getting out of the gang life his story always revolves around finding meaning in their church thus replacing gang activity with church activity.

I sometimes sell my art at a local street fair. It is at an intersection of a moistly black neighborhood and a mostly white neo-hippie neighborhood. There are always black street preachers who tell how their love of Jesus got them out of gangs. And every time a black is killed, either by other blacks or the police, there is a sizable group of blacks gang members as well as others from their community. The assemblage always has an overwhelming religious tone.

 

I just can't agree.

How do you explain Luddites?

 

There was no single origin it was an evolutionary development. Organism with rudimentary nevrous systems that evolved a basic brain cell that remembered a stimulus. Give another million years or so and trillions upon trillions of reproductions and mutations. Organic chemistry is quite remarkable you know.

What is the origin of God?

Random chemicals can't but then through evolution and time and the power of organic chemistry and energy powerful chemicals formed, amino acids, nucleic acids, then basic one cell organism which developed the ability to divide and replicate. We seen the beginnings of this in laboratories.

In the form of what?

 

What Republican business owners are "freeloading" as opposed to you a liberal business owner? I didn't know Republicans had the ability to not pay taxes and liberals did not. Is that in the tax code? Or are you telling me that you as a liberal business owner you do not take all business deductions you are allowed and you pay more in taxes than you are required to do?

 

the swastika was used by many religions pre-hitler.. even Christianity... no one uses it now

 

My children were home schooled in an entirely non-religious environment. They are well ahead of the curve in relation to other millennials. My brother sent his children to a protestant school where every lesson used bible imagery. When they got to high school they went to a public high school and had to take remedial classes.

The Catholic Church heavily subsidizes it's schools. I went to a Catholic school grades 1-8. I only had an hour of religious instruction per week which I mostly ignored finding it irrelevant. I first learned about evolution and the big bang in a Catholic school. I got all A's in the Catholic schools as I did in a public high school and at a public university. Catholic schools are good schools not because they are religious but because the church took efforts to make their schools good. Protestant run schools usually are inferior to public schools.

 

What is a Luddite?

 

If you're looking for an definiitive answer to the question, does God exist?

I don't have one.

Are you able to definitively answer the same question, only in the negative.
God does not exist?

You can argue there is no evidence that the Biblical God exists, however lack of evidence does not equate to a definitive non-existence.

At best the atheist can proclaim

There is no definitive evidence that God exists, the Biblical God as described in the Old/New Testatments. There is no evidence this "God" as characterized in these books, exists.

That is the best you can do...you can't equivocally state from a lack of evidence, therefore non-existence.

Agnosticism is our natural state. We are not born atheists or theists, we are born curious and open to possibilities.

Does God exist?

We don't know.

Atheism<=======Unknown=========>Theism

We learn to believe in God, just as we learn not to.

 

Sorry but test results don't generally show that. Note that the curriculum is generally set by the states not by the church even in private Christians schools,regardless of flavor.
If you want state accreditation you teach what the states say you need to teach and only idiots send there kids to unaccredited schools no matter what there religious affiliation is.

 

The subatomic world is observable even if our act of observing it disturbs it. No god has ever been observed. In quantum mechanics we can make predictions and manipulate the world around us. There is no comparable "god". From quantum mechanics we now have transistors and nuclear energy. No god has ever gave us such things or even a glimpse of the knowledge required to find such things

 

I'm way off-topic to the main point ot fhe thread, so I'll end with this.

I'm addressing the hardened Atheists of the forum. Those who have decided there is no God, not even the distant Spinoza version of God, I mean you truly in your heart of hearts are convinced God does not exist. At all.

I was an Agnostic for many many years, that's another discusion.

Thomas Huxley said ~

I will not convince anyone on the hardened "Godless" side of the argument that God exists, that they need to follow this or that religion. I admittedly cannot convince you with mere words. My hope is I can give you a nudge, a gentle nudge out of the corner of absolutism in the rejection of God, into what I regard as truth.

Follow your reason, as far it goes, as far as it will take you; but once there don't be convinced that reason alone makes anything certain.

Open yourselves to possibilities.

have a very pleasant evening...as it were

 

And who are you getting these statistics from? Christian schools? Who obviously would never lie to you.

 

From the state government...Who test all schools in the state at various grade levels

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

But, in the modern age, it has become a slang word for people who shun technology and live without modern conveniences like electricity.

Similar to the Amish, but without religion.

 

There are studies that show that they do better and studies that show they don't. I think it probably depends on the state and how much bureaucracy there is. I live in Florida. Pretty crummy public schools in general and very top heavy with a little trickling down to the classrooms.

 

Evolution is not random. Evolution is highly predictable due to natural selection, which is why evolutionary models have been used for practical applications for things like engineering.

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Considering I have no beliefs about the supernatural or any gods, by definition I have no religion.

 

Let's define "quite well," shall we? These kids think morality is subjective. Thus, in the most basic sense, they have no ability to distinguish right from wrong. And yet you can't make the connection between that and modern epidemics like mass shootings. That stuff didn't happen during less secular times, did it?

Quite well indeed. You've created a generation of solipsists and sociopaths.

 

I said inner city youngsters.

 

You said......

I asked for proof of that.

It's your assertion, if you can't prove it when challenged then we can safely assume it bovine excrement. Can you back up your assertion with proof or not?

 

It seems quite apparent to me that religious people often account for as many of the most immoral as well as the most moral individuals around.

In terms of ideological value, religion is clearly redundant as a moral force.

 

And yet atheism remains an unpopular worldview.....you would think all those "immoral" religious folks would have changed that by now. Guess not.

 

Because science only deals with what is in our universe. Just because God cannot be seen completely in a cake does not mean that the "science of pastry" has proven God does not exist. Why do you use such fallacies?

 

Godwin's law aside.....Jeffrey Dahmer was raised Christian as well but became atheist and started killing people. Atheist Stalin murdered people by the truckload.....hmmmm....seems this atheist thing causes the world more problems than any religion ever has.

 

The world population is slowly bit by bit turning toward an AGNOSTIC VIEWPOINT.

This has a great deal to do with the Scientific Method as anyone who follows the scientific method worth their salt is AGNOSTIC.

As far as those who have some sort of Spiritual belief....this does NOT conflict with the Scientific Method nor does a person who is Spiritual have to be RELIGIOUS.

Religion in general has caused and still is causing all sorts of strife planet wide.

AboveAlpha