I hope a GOD exists but I am not holding my breath!

It is YOU who is making a claim!!!

YOU state that the existing copies of the Gospels are exactly what the Apostles originally said or did.

They are NOT.

Prove they are.

AA

 

Just to add the onus and burden of proof is ALWAYS upon the person supplying a Supernatural Explanation.

You state you are a Priest.

Well if you are your obviously not a very good one.

I have talked and debated with MANY Priests, Pastors...etc...and even a Bishop in my time about such things and NEVER did any of them when confronted by logic that might conflict with their beliefs EVER got angry or irritated like YOU!!!

They would ALWAYS make sure to acknowledge the FACTS and the LOGIC and then say....."I understand and acknowledge what you are saying and I certainly don't have all the answers but I have FAITH.

You see....unlike you....a person of strong Faith does not need to argue the REALITIES!!!

They accept the science and math and logic and EVOLVE.

AA

 

Mr. "I Pretend I'm a Biblical Scholar" speaks.

Just not in any way you can demonstrate, priest.

 

Mr. "I Pretend I'm An Expert On Everything Speaks".

This is common knowledge to anybody who does something besides post on political forums.

 

And you are no intellectual.

I might say that, too, if you had any facts and were logical about it. As it is, the emotional rants of atheists are more tedium than anything else. Years ago I debated atheists when I was a layman, and they were pretty smart back then, you really had to be on your toes because they knew your side of the argument almost as well as you did. Today they mostly make absurd claims then demand for you to prove them wrong, like you just did. That is not "debate", it's intellectual laziness.

 

No....it's you being unable to understand that the burden of proof lies with the person using a Supernatural Event as their evidence to back their claims.

As well your complete lack of logic concerning your claim that the existing copies of the Gospels that are used in the Bible are....according to your completely illogical claim.....exactly what the the Apostles quoted in them said, did and observed.

I cannot tell you just how ridiculous and lacking basic logic your claim actually is as I cannot believe you are even trying to say this never mind challenge basic common sense!!

As most people know if you have 10 people in a line and an 11th person whispers a single 5 word sentence into the ear of one person at the end of the 10 person long line and they are told to whisper what the person next to them whispers in their ear to the next in line.....after just one trip down the line a simple 5 word sentence WILL BE DRAMATICALLY CHANGED AND DIFFERENT in both words, sentence structure and meaning by the time it is whispered to the last person in line and when that last person is told to say out loud what they were told.

This is an exercise that most kids are taught when they are in Elementary School and the purpose of this exercise is to TEACH KIDS.....how the meaning of something told to one person and then retold by others will dramatically change!!

I myself was part of this exercise when I was in 5th grade.

Now....that is only a 5 WORD SENTENCE told down the line through ONLY 10 PEOPLE!!

YOU are ridiculously and hilariously trying to state that the Gospels which were written at first by very early Christian's who in most cases DID NOT EVEN SEE FIRST HAND WHAT HAPPENED....but in fact were TOLD the stories and then wrote them down.....BUT.....

BUT.....it get's even more convoluted from there as the first written Gospels WERE ALL....EVERY SINGLE ONE....DESTROYED BY THE ROMANS.....and the people who wrote them were killed!!!

THEN.....another person had to write them again.....FROM MEMORY....and they were also killed and that copy of that Gospel destroyed by the Romans.....and then this would happen again...and again...and again.....as the vast majority of the only existing Gospels are many...MANY times removed and copies of copies of copies 10 fold over several hundred years!!!

Now....there is NO POSSIBLE WAY....for any existing Gospel to be 100% accurate as far as what is written and what story it tells.

In fact the Probability dictates no more than 23% of any single existing Gospel MAY be an accurate representation of what happened.....ONLY 23% MIGHT BE ACCURATE....this does not mean 23% of all Gospels are accurate...it means ON THE HIGH ESTIMATE.....23% of what is written in any single Gospel MAY BE ACCURATE.

And here is a FACT that you will hate but none the less it is so.....that 23% that is accurate is ONLY ACCURATE as far as what the first writer WAS TOLD OR WHAT HE HEARD AS THE STORY!!

Now....I have not attacked you personally but I KNOW YOU ARE EITHER NOT A PRIEST OR PERHAPS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PREACH!!

HOW do I know this??

Because no Priest would specifically target me in an attempt to use Character Assassination in order to gain revenge for me just posting REALITY!!!

It is the M.O. for all people who just cannot stand to have others not agree with their beliefs as they cannot argue the LOGIC....and they cannot provide any evidence or proof to back their statements....so what do they and YOU do??

YOU and they cannot ague the point so they and you attempt to discredit the member you and they do not agree with!! LOLOLOL!!!!

Now....you state...."And you are no intellectual."...end quote Angry it's just me.

Do you actually think any member on this forum will disregard my post saying...."Just to add the onus and burden of proof is ALWAYS upon the person supplying a Supernatural Explanation."...end quote AboveAlpha......just because you state what you did?? LOL!!!

You have a LOT to learn....both from a educational perspective as well as how to play nice with others who might not necessarily agree with your belief system.

Now I might not agree with what you believe...but I would NEVER attempt to say you have no right to believe it.

And I always will reserve the right to post the reality.

Every time you get indignant just because another member posts reality and uses logic to counter your claims....well....most members here are pretty smart....and they can tell when someone is acting like a Jack Ass in an attempt to do and say ANYTHING that will take the spotlight off the reality of the issue.

AA

 

Want to know why I get frustrated? This is a STRAWMAN argument that HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I HAVE SAID OR AM SAYING.

http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

This link shows that there are 5600 copies of the New Testament in existence with 99.5% accuracy. This information is everywhere, it took me a grand total of 30 seconds to find it. As it is, I have read numbers like this in more than one hardbound book but I can't open a book and show it to you. I'll bet you won't even look at the link or if you do you'll have some kind of BS claim to make about it not being accurate. This is not the telephone game, these are real documents and even the documents that are in pieces can be used to reconstruct the original text. How do I know this? Because I READ.

Your claim that the Romans destroyed the original copies is ludicrous because even if they had (which they didn't) there were enough people writing about what the Gospels said that you can practically reconstruct the Gospels just from commentaries. The truth is that there were copies of the Gospels everywhere the Apostles went. This is a true historical fact. There is no excuse for you to be ignorant, this information is out there and if you really wanted to destroy my argument you would produce real historical documents that prove what you say with REAL statistics and numbers, not the ones you made up on the spot. But you don't. Instead you launch into meaningless rhetoric about the telephone game, LOLOLOL's (I mean really, what are you, 13?) and insult me by claiming I am not who I say I am, which is the refuge of every "internet genius" I have ever met. The reality is, you don't even know who I am, it's just another claim you can not back up.

And we are not talking about a "supernatural explanation". We were talking about the reliability of the Gospels in written form.

I am not trying to convince you or anyone else here of anything, I know better than that. A couple of decades worth of dealing with both political and religious idealogues (read: blind partisans) has taught me you can't teach them anything, they will just keep repeating the same nonsense even when they are shown to be wrong. I would rather that you people find this information for yourself. I would rather, in your efforts to PROVE ME WRONG that you would learn the truth for yourself, you are surely not going to take it from me.

No go ahead and try to defend your position by claiming I am not who I say I am again.

 

LOL!

You provide a completely biased website to support your belief?? LOL!!!

So....we are supposed to take this guy's word rather than look at the logic or at the very least look at a peered reviewed analysis of the issue!!???

You know....I could not have done more damage to your credibility than you just did to it yourself.

You provide no evidence...no proof....no scientific analysis.

It a JOKE!!

AA

 

I knew it.

I often wonder what people like you mean when you say "peer reviewed". Who do you think this guy's peers are? Atheists? I guarantee that he didn't make this study himself, he's just reporting it, but if this guy is wrong, prove it. But you won't, you'll just bluster away as always, as if it means something to anybody but you.

Thanks for proving my point. No matter what I would have given you, you would have found some problem with it - it's "too Catholic", it's "too Protestant", it's "a biased website", which is why I didn't even want to get into this with you, I can tell by your temperament that no matter what, you will continue in your ignorance and apathy. That's why I refuse to spend much time with people like you, I only have so many ticks on the clock.

I think we're done here

P.S. - You are no scientist, real scientists don't make posts like this.

 

Your done...that's for certain!! LOL!!!

Do yourself a favor...next time try not to use a Creationist and Highly Religious and Biased individuals article in some insane attempt to provide evidence to support your beliefs.

What you did here is like using Exxon-Mobil's data and opinion to support a persons Anti-Global Warming Beliefs!!

LOL!!

AA

 

Says a biased atheist type who calls himself an agnostic.

Yeah, facts don't matter when the wrong people have them. Ever hear the expression that says that even a broken clock is right twice a day? Well, a broken clock IS right twice a day and facts are facts no matter who speaks them. Not that you would know.

LOL!

 

Here is a clue....a broken clock is never right because it's purpose it to keep track of time.

A person who observes the clock that is broken has absolutely no idea if it is 9:00 even if the clock's arms are stuck at 9:00.

This analogy of yours is indicative of the skewed logic you use.

Just like the existing Gospels....a person who reads them has absolutely no idea if they are correct or not....just like the clock.

AA

 

In more missing the point news, you totally missed the point of the analogy, as always, arguing about a clock instead of actually checking to see if I am right or wrong. Libs always amaze me.

 

LOL!!!

First of all I am not a Lib.

Secondly you are using an analogy that does not logically apply.

But of course you don't understand this.

AA

 

But..... being accused of being a lib...... or partial lib.......
should be taken as at least something of a compliment........

one of the nicest things that can be written about you in
these forums.........

I don't mind it at all when people think that I am a little "pink" on the
blue vs red vs orange vs green........

Canadian and North American political spectrum scale!


http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...things-can-you-say-about-president-obama.html
What positive things can you say about President Obama?





.........
while we are on the topic......
I do believe that President Obama has set up The Donald....and / or Bernie......
and / or even Hillary.....to play out a role over the next eight years that will
strangely fit with Isaiah chapters 42 - 46................................

 

Can your G-d learn?

Can the Ancient of Days the Father.... as visualized by you........
get better and better and better and better at planning and engineering and
choreographing Big Bang type events?

My version of G-d can do that?

Can your version of G-d.... .become more emotional.........
as G-d initiates...... what appears to me to be new... Ezekiel 37 style events..........
new time lines?

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...most-emotional-being-universe-multiverse.html

Could God the Father be the most emotional being in the universe/ multiverse?
Which type of project will you tend to get more involve in?

A job that you invested fifty hours of your time in over one month or a labour of love where you exerted a great deal of effort for 50,000 hours over forty years?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/reincarnation04.html#a05

.......

This question also relates to Multiverse Theory that AboveAlpha has elaborated on and I quote here:

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...osophical-implications-multiverse-theory.html
The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?
I have suspected for about fifteen years that that time is not limited to being one straight line but instead branches.

Over in another thread I just received a very specific and pretty amazing explanation for this that is in the language spoken by high level theoretical physicists.

If........ you and I have been thinking seriously about changing our diet, becoming more physically active, well now we have another possible motivator?!

The new and improved version of you and I may well get to live out life over and over and over again many times over nearly infinite time in the future, for each time that a moment within our lifetime is recreated and time is spun off in a new possible direction based on different choices that we are all free to make?!

.............

There is at least one verse in the Christian Bible that indicates that possible near death experiencer
Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus understood.... the possibility of non-linear time.........


.... (post #51)......

 

I term myself a Messianic Gentile.......
not really an Agnostic.......

but I agree with you that the Christian canon was to some degree probably edited......

by well intentioned..... but mistaken monks..... experts..... and even the fifth century Pope who
canonized the Christian Bible.......... was somewhat biased against certain doctrines that were
common belief among Messianic Jews and Messianic Gentiles in the first, second and third century?!

I have came to believe........
that much of the evidence for the first century belief in something resembling reincarnation.......
by the disciples of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus was ..... to some degree....EDITED OUT... of the Christian
scriptures..........

and the belief in the Virgin Birth.......
on the other hand was EDITED INTO.... the book of Luke......
The Apostle Paul never once mentions the doctrine.. which indicates that
it may not even have been considered during Paul's lifetime!???

......

http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...hy-reincarnation-edited-out-christianity.html
Why reincarnation was edited out of Christianity?
On Saturday I began a Facebook group entitled Barbro Karlen and Anne Frank after one of the most famous cases of a child remembering a past life.

Yesterday I got the most logical explanation I have ever read as to why reincarnation may have been edited out of the Christian scriptures:

......
http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...longer-believe-virgin-birth-jesus-yeshua.html
I no longer believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus/ Yeshua!
I did until December 2012 when I read The Thomas Book Near Death and a Quest for Another Gospel by the Twin Brother of Jesus.......

This book has the potential to transform the relationship between Jews, Christians and Muslims!

 

I am a Moderate.

I usually vote GOP in Presidential Elections but not all the time.

If I have to be specific I am a Fiscally Conservative Socially Liberal Moderate from Massachusetts who is well educated and well trained in the extreme.

It is not logical to just vote along Party Lines.

AA

 

Right, and you're not an atheist, either, you just look like a duck, walk like a duck, and quack like a duck. And you have once again avoided talking about how many manuscripts of the NT exist because you would find out you are wrong.

LOL

IJM

 

Dennis, I have read enough of your posts to know that I don't want to read any more of them, so save yourself some time and stop posting to me.

 

You never thought you might be looking in the wrong places?

 

Name ONE Gospel that exists that is original!

You can't because they are none.

AA

- - - Updated - - -

So easy for you to dismiss another isn't it?

You are not a Priest.

Or perhaps you were and were kicked out.

AA

- - - Updated - - -

I have looked everywhere.

Nothing.

AA

 

So have I, so save me some scrolling and stop quoting him.

 

Look....Dennis might post some off the wall stuff...but Dennis has his heart in the right place and he is my friend.

If the world had more Dennis' in it then I would not have to be flying out to some hell hole all the time.

AA

 

My irony meter just exploded off the wall.