Part 36 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Egypt has to be empty of people and Israel has to be ruled by a king.

 

Exactly. Israel is not a kingdom.

Therefore any prophecy referencing a restored Kingdom of Israel cannot come true until Israel is a kingdom.

 

I saw the progamme and have looked into it the plagues during studies. Of course these plagues could have, and probably did happen - many times over the millenia. It would be a natural course of events if the waters of Nile dried up over several years. This happened when the rains in Africa failed several years. It wasn't unknown and the storytellers included it in their stories and added the firstborn
. Firstborn son because they were supposed to inherit their fathers attributes.

It's all a natural course of events.

Rock of Horeb.We are supposed to believe that Moses struck the rock and water came out. We are told it flowed out and created the channels as it flowed down through the Granite.

Balderdash. Unless, of course the Israelites were there for a tens of thousands of years. That's what it would take for pure underground water to make much of a mark on the Granite rock.Surface water picks up minute particles which erode away the rock, very slowly. That also takes a very long time.Thousands of years.

Moses? No evidence.

 

1- Check out some youtube vids like this one where where people do a walkaround at the foot of the Rock and you'll see there are channels, how do you explain that?

[video=youtube;kmknf1mNP5E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmknf1mNP5E[/video]


2- Jesus said there was a Moses-
"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44), so who shall we believe, the Son of God or you?
Hmm that's a toughie..

 

nation kingdom state what's the difference? other than a king or some other title of leader? its apparent you really don't know what you're talking about so, my job is done here.

 

If you have read what I said, I acknowledge the channels. But channels in Granite rock made by water take tens of thousands of years to appear. The Hebrews were only there for a few days.

Toughie? Simple to anyone who thinks about it.

Of course Jesus thought there was a Moses. It had been drilled into him virtually every day from the age of 5 until 13. There was no knowledge of the time to question it. Today there is. Jesus believed the creation story - He'd never heard of evolution. As to what they saw, who knows. Luke gives us an extended account which does not appears in the other gospels - and he wasn't even around at the time.
Look how the church drilled it's doctrines into people for centuries until people began to read for themselves.

 

The writers of the Bible would have been very familiar with both republics and democracies. They deliberately used the word "kingdom".

 

1- Science has proven that time is stretchy and bendable, so human-time is not necessarily God-time..-
"With God a thousand years are as one day" (2 Peter 3:8 )
Heck God can even stop it and rewind it-
"The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being." (Joshua 10:12-14)
"Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down" (Isaiah 38:8 )

2- Sure, Jesus may have been taught about Moses like other kids, but he went one step further and realised-
"All things about me in the law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms, must be fulfilled" (Luke 24:44)
"The scriptures testify about me...Moses wrote about me" (John 5:46)

 

According to the Jewish Babylonian Talmud Tractate Kethuboth 11a & 11b http://halakhah.com/kethuboth/kethuboth_11.html
Mary could have had intercourse when she was less than three years-old and still be considered a virgin.

Kethuboth Folio 11a

We will also say:1 ailonith [the barren woman that is] a man-like2 woman, who does not bear children.3
MISHNAH. A WOMAN PROSELYTE, A WOMAN CAPTIVE, AND A WOMAN SLAVE, WHO HAVE BEEN REDEEMED, CONVERTED, OR FREED [WHEN THEY WERE] LESS THAN THREE YEARS AND ONE DAY OLD — THEIR KETHUBAH IS TWO HUNDRED [ZUZ]. AND THERE IS WITH REGARD TO THEM THE CLAIM OF [NON-]VIRGINITY.4

Footnotes:
1. We will make a similar etymological exposition.
2. Or ram-like. [H] 'a woman who cannot bear children,' is connected with [H] (ram).
3. I.e., who is incapable of bearing children.
4. If they had sexual intercourse before they were three years and one day old the hymen would grow again, and they would be virgins. V. 9a and 11b and cf. Nid. 44b and 45a.

Kethuboth 11b

AND THERE IS WITH REGARD TO THEM NO CHARGE OF NONVIRGINITY. A WOMAN PROSELYTE, A WOMAN CAPTIVE AND A WOMAN SLAVE, WHO HAVE BEEN REDEEMED, CONVERTED, OR FREED [WHEN THEY WERE] MORE THAN THREE YEARS AND ONE DAY OLD — THEIR KETHUBAH IS A MANEH, AND THERE IS WITH REGARD TO THEM NO CHARGE OF NON-VIRGINITY.
GEMARA. Rab Judah said that Rab said: A small boy who has intercourse with a grown-up woman makes her [as though she were] injured by a piece of wood.1 When I said it before Samuel he said: 'Injured by a piece of wood' does not apply to2 flesh. Some teach this teaching by itself:3 [As to] a small boy who has intercourse with a grown-up woman. Rab said, he makes her [as though she were] injured by a piece of wood; whereas Samuel said: 'Injured by a piece of wood' does not apply to flesh. R. Oshaia objected: WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN HAS HAD INTERCOURSE WITH A LITTLE GIRL, OR WHEN A SMALL BOY HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A GROWN-UP WOMAN, OR WHEN A GIRL WAS ACCIDENTALLY INJURED BY A PIECE OF WOOD — [IN ALL THESE CASES] THEIR KETHUBAH IS TWO HUNDRED [ZUZ]; SO ACCORDING TO R. MEIR. BUT THE SAGES SAY: A GIRL WHO WAS INJURED ACCIDENTALLY BY A PIECE OF WOOD — HER KETHUBAH IS A MANEH!4 Raba said, It means5 this: When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this,6 it is as if one puts the finger into the eye;7 but when a small boy has intercourse with a grown-up woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood,' and [with regard to the case of] 'a girl injured by a piece of wood,' itself, there is the difference of opinion between R. Meir and the Sages.

Footnotes:1. Although the intercourse of a small boy is not regarded as a sexual act, nevertheless the woman is injured by it as by a piece of wood.
2. Lit., 'is not in'.
3. I.e., the difference of opinion between Rab and Samuel with regard to that question was recorded without any reference to R. Judah.
4. The Sages differ only with regard to a girl injured by a piece of wood, but not with regard to a small boy who has intercourse with a grown-up woman. This shows that the latter case cannot be compared with the former case. The Mishnah would consequently be against Rab and for Samuel.
5. Lit., 'says'.
6. Lit., 'here', that is, less than three years old.
7. I.e., tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years. Cf. Nid. 45a.

 

1. And the consequences of any of these would have been catastrophic for the earth.

2. Luke alone has these events - and he wasn't even around. And 'these things' are not prophesied in the Prophets and as Moses did not exist, not written by Moses.

Christians ignore what is proven reality for what is unproven speculation. You ignore history which proves the Bible story of Abraham/Moses is wrong. You ignore the fact that the Nativity stories are based on out-of-context quotations and Roman laws that did not exist. That Jesus teachings are Jewish in origin. That the trial, crucufixion and death of the Jewish preacher are a confusion of memories in later times.

 

Between you and Mitt you make god into the most irrationable being in the universe. He creates a being like unto himself. That being is a disaster so he kills most of them but keeps one family alive - knowing full well their ancestors will be just as bad. That he will eventually have to condemn most of them to 'hell' and come to earth himself to be killed to save some.
Why not take Noah and his family to heaven, as with Enoch, and start again. Then we wouldn't know about his failure to create a 'good' human being. He could start again on another planet with another creature.

Heck. Why did god have to alter time in either case. Could he not have helped Joshua to accomplish everything in one day - to save everyone floating into space and coming back to earth later. Then he heals Hezekiah and grants him 15 years more. And Hezekiah promptly condemns his own family and Israel into the hands of the Babylonians after his death.

If the Bible is to be believed mankind has suffered intolerably through being created a faulty being. It's a good story book with a few home truths in it. The OT is Jewish Scriptures and when the history of the Jews between the last action in the OT (the Maccabean period) is added - it is complete. It simply looks forward to the Human Messiah and the Messianic age. Jesus was a Jewish preacher/evangelist of Judaism who, if Christianity had not raised him to Divinity, would have disappeared from world history.

 

You're a funny guy mate, John (a disciple) and the doctor Luke both quoted Jesus, and the ancient prophets foretold his coming in Genesis, the Psalms, Micah, Zechariah, Isaiah..

 

How do you explain Mark and Luke on geographical Ignorance... Gadara versus Gerasa ?

 

Why on earth would anybody want to "invent" Christianity and get themselves killed?
For example the snooty jewish priests had the early Christian Stephen stoned to death-

 

Why on Earth would anyone want to invent Mormonism and get themselves killed like Joseph Smith was?

The Snooty Priests had him shot after they tried to lynch him.

 

Which particular verses do you have in mind? Mark and Luke mention "the country of the Gadarenes" where the people freaked after Jesus stampeded the pigs-
"..besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear" (Luke 8:37)

 

Smith was probably hoping nobody would mind his crackpot ideas.
Mormons call Christians "fools"- "Whoever thinks the Bible is sufficient and infallible are fools" (Book of Mormon II Nephi 29:3-10), so when the local citizens heard Smith had 35 wives including one as young as 14, that gave them an excuse to go round there to settle his hash but he pulled a gun and shot two of them dead, so they returned fire and busted his ass..

 

Look them up .. I don't want to spoon feed you.

 

Sniffle...and there was I hoping you were the tender caring Nurse Chappel type and that you'd invite me over to your place to share a bowl of soup..
Look how concerned she is over the ailing Spock..

 

Jesus was probably hoping no one would mind his crackpot ideas.

Smith was in jail when it was attacked by a mob. He got his gun from one of the people sent to kill him. If a mob came to kill you for your religious beliefs, would you roll over and just die?

 

Jesus didn't have 35 wives including a little girl, and he never whipped out a gun to shoot anybody..
Only crackpot cultists use guns such as in the Waco siege, Jim Jones etc.

 

I've still to hear why I should accept all the quotes all the OT references which, if you understand the OT, are taken out of context.

Micah 5:2

1. It doesn't even say this ruler will be born in Bethlehem, but 'shall come out of'.
2. Look at the following things that this ruler will do. None of them refer to Jesus but to a ruler 600 years prior who would face the Assyrians.
3. Bethlehem Ephratah. Is the verse acually referring to a place or a person.
And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel." (Matthew 2:1-6)
! Chronicles 2:50-54. "These [are] the sons of Israel; Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun,...........]...These were the sons of Caleb the son of Hur, the firstborn of Ephratah; Shobal the father of Kirjathjearim, Salma the father of Bethlehem, Hareph the father of Bethgader." (1 Chronicles 2:1-51)
Nothing about a town - just thousands. There weren't thousands of towns in Palestine today, let alone then. But there were thousands of families. Matthew thought the prophecy was about a town. It wasn't.

Accept that or not, Micah cannot refer to Jesus. He doesn't fulfil the events the person is supposed to have done.

None of the Psalms refer to Jesus. Most that were written by 'David' are concerning his own tempestuous life. A comprehensive study of his life would make that quite clear.

Isaiah. The old Chestnut. Take chapter 53 out of the book to confirm a prophecy. Leave it in and it falls in with the Suffering Servant being the nation of Israel.

Nothing in the OT refers to Jesus, unless it is taken out of context.

And I said that only Luke wrote about the events. I cannot see the road to Emmaus mentioned by anyone else.

 

"A little girl"

You are aware people getting married in their teens was common in Smith's time right?

Does that mean the Snooty Priest led mob with their guns were crackpot cultists for wanting to kill Smith?

Were David and Solomon crackpots when they had multiple wives and god blessed them?

 

Look at the following things that this ruler will do. None of them refer to Jesus but to a ruler 600 years prior who would face the Assyrians.

Who was that?

 

I cannot even conceive (pun possibly intended) of the mindset of people who would spend so much time and effort on this stuff.