AHCA Must Be Passed

A loan for the full value? There's no earnings. After that how do they repay?

 

So was the USA the only nation that improved the technology of cars in the last 40 years or was it done by many nations all around the world? Did the Japanese and the Germans and the Koreans and the English all just sit around waiting for the Americans to do all of the upgrades to cars?

Medical technology is not solely owned by the USA. Improvements and upgrades occur all around the world so it is a complete and utter fallacy to allege that other nations are benefitting from USA and nothing is flowing the other way. And if you want an anecdote a relative of mine, on a different continent, invented a surgical monitoring device that is used all around the world now, including the USA.

FTR only GE makes MRI's here in the USA. Phillips and Siemans make them in Europe and Toshiba makes them in Japan. Then there is Hitachi and bunch of other brands that I don't know where exactly they are made.

So do you still want to allege that only the USA makes and exports medical technology for the benefit of other countries?

 

What are you talking about that there are no earnings?

 

The USA gives the most into it we have throughout history only recently has China and Germany been able to hold a candle to us dollar for dollar we are way ahead

 

Isn't that the point? Remove the profits?

 

Sweet Racism, whats your next trick? oh wait, I know... Lets see some sexism...

 

Have you looked at Tenet and Columbia HCA?

 

Prove it!

 

Where on earth did you get that idea?

Just because there are no shareholders does not mean that the corporation can't be profitable.

Sheesh!

 

You LIKE your Obamacare? You can KEEP your Obamacare, as far as I'm concerned.

If Trump tries to suck up to radical, socialistic Democrats at this point then I'm THROUGH with him. I've had a dark, unverifiable suspicion in the back of my mind for about a year that Trump might just actually be a Democrat "mole", running as a pretend-Conservative. The plan, ostensibly, would be to deliberately sabotage the Republican Party and everything in this country that is Conservative. I certainly hope that I'm wrong....

As for the ACA itself, we may never know why SCOTUS Chief Justice, John Roberts illegally construed this obviously unconstitutional pile of fraudulent crap to morph into becoming a "tax" instead of the "mandate" that was produced by Congress and signed into law by Obama. The ACA was constructed by Jonathan Gruber, its CHIEF architect, who gloated over how STUPID the American people were for being gullible enough to buy into anything as rotten and fraudulent as the ACA is!

Link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/26/jonathan-gruber-infamous-obamacare-architect-says-/

 

So sabotage the law, and then say it is broken? What a great approach. Nobody will see through it!

Here is what the AHCA debacle demonstrated:

FOR REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES IN GENERAL

1. Republicans, trapped by ideology, proposed a law that would cost MORE than Obamacare, while doing LESS, hurting millions of people in the process, while providing a massive tax cut to the wealthy.
2. It was, objectively, a horrible piece of legislation. It solved nothing, just made things worse for everyone except the wealthy.
3. It also demonstrated that after 7 years of griping about Obamacare, Republicans had no actual, workable ideas for something better. It turns out Obamacare, for all its flaws, was a pretty good approach to something as complicated as health care.
4. The GOP proved they didn't care at ALL about the consequences of their plan, because unlike Obamacare -- which took a year and a half to work through Congress -- they tried to rush their replacement through in 18 days, with little or no debate, no asking for Democratic input, practically no hearings or anything else. They even ignored their constituents, skipping town hall meetings back home in their districts. They did this despite large public opposition and horrible CBO scoring. Which is legislatively reckless, never mind politically stupid.

FOR TRUMP IN PARTICULAR

1. Trump repeatedly promised an Obamacare replacement that would be awesome and wonderful. He and his people promised nobody would be worse off under their replacement -- a claim far more sweeping and definitive than Obama's "if you like your plan, you can keep it."
2. Yet he backed the AHCA, which was roughly the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he promised. Making Trump (shock!) a massive liar and fraud.
3. Later, when the Freedom Caucus tried to negotiate with Trump to push right-wing changes, it was clear that Trump was not familiar AT ALL with the policy details of the law. And further, that he DID NOT CARE about the policy details. He just wanted a bill passed -- any bill, didn't matter.
4. Because his ignorance did not allow for actual negotiation, he attempted to bully Republicans into voting for the bill. It failed, spectacularly.
5. As a result, Trump has been publicly exposed as ignorant, dishonest, weak, blustering and incompetent.

Finally, I think Trump is blowing up another cherished conservative myth. He is proving, in spectacular fashion, that running the federal government is NOTHING like running a business, and that being a successful businessman does not, by itself, make a person prepared to be president.

There IS a health-care bill that could pass Congress, but it would have to be a bill that could attract support from Democrats and moderate Republicans -- that is, a bill that addressed Obamacare's flaws, not a bill that simply tried to blow it all up. Such a bill would have other advantages, too -- like, actually making people's lives better, and actually having majority support from the American people. Things that apparently didn't enter into Republican calculations with the AHCA.

 

Ahhh.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending

 

Um, yes. What, you think it is "middle class"?

A household income of $250,000 puts you in the top 3%:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html?_r=0

If that's not rich, what is?

My wife and earn a combined $150,000 a year or so. That's enough to put us in the top 9%. We're not rich, but we're easily upper-middle-class. I have no issue paying a higher tax rate than people earning far less. I would much rather be me than them, and I also recognize that my success depends, in part, on theirs.

 

Have you looked that the thousands of not for profit hospitals in the market currently? Are we just going to use this to try and sideline here, or is there an actual point?

 

I know you both of you want to blame the hospitals here but the data just doesn't show that. You can find some otliers but it's not proof of anything. Your outliers don't reflect on the whole. Something else is going on.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/08/30/profitable-hospitals-hca-healthcare-business-mayo-clinic.html

The median operating margin for 200-bed hospitals and above was slightly negative (-0.7%) last year. That means the money that was brought in from patients fell short of what they needed to spend on staff, equipment, buildings and other items.

 

Can't completely disagree with you, although you cherry-pick the facts and filter everything through a rather subjective viewpoint.

Look... to mash all the extraneous crap out of the situation, please consider this simple scenario...

A heavily-armed, "disturbed" man locks himself in a panic-room with only one door and no windows. He announces that he has decided to commit suicide when he's ready to do so -- and he shouts out a warning to you that if you dare to try to stop him in any way, he'll shoot you first, and then go on and commit suicide anyway!

THAT is the situation with Obamacare, right here, right now.

In my opinion, the smart thing to do is to let him kill himself and then go in and remove the dead body. Clean up the room and move on.... Nobody's going to charge you with a crime for staying out of harm's way while this idiot killed himself! And when Obamacare does commit "suicide", probably in no more than another 18 months, no Democrat in the world is going to be able to lay the responsibility at the feet of ANY Conservative.... It was a Democrat creation. Not one single Republican in Congress voted for Obamacare. It's belongs to the Democrat Party!

 

Corporate for profit hospitals cost on average 22% more by designated illness or procedure or surgery than not for profit hospitals.

 

But they aren't the normal. If you eliminate them will the costs go down? You still have the same problems.

 

Take a look at the stock price history of Columbia HCA and Tenet.

 

You didn't answer the question. The outliers don't matter the entire system is ****ed up. You are talking about 300 facilities between those two companies. A lot of them are even in the UK. It looks like a lot of it is urgent care. The type of business designed to keep people out of the ER.

 

Of course they are designed to keep people out of the ER.... and yes they have expanded into urgent care facilities since they got nailed for ethics violations and Medicare Fraud.

If you want to understand what happened read Don't Mess With Marla Moore".

 

This isn't the way most facilities operate. It's not the reason healthcare prices are outrageous. Do you accept that?

 

I have no problem with not for profit hospitals.. I worked for an ESOP chain, a for profit chain and a not for profit hospital.

And I went thru the wars with the largest for profit ....

HCA whistleblower revives claim that Scott knew of fraud | Tampa Bay ...
www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida.../hca-whistleblower...that.../2200916

1. Cached
2. Similar

Oct 6, 2014 - Schilling left the company in 1995 and sought whistleblower protection. In 1996, the FBI persuaded him to get back into Columbia/HCA so he ...
386: 06-26-03 largest health care fraud case in us history settled hca ...
https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/2003/June/03_civ_386.htm

1. Cached

Jun 26, 2003 - WASHINGTON, D.C. - HCA Inc. (formerly known as Columbia/HCA and ... and HCA hospitals in nine False Claims Act qui tam or whistleblower ...
Columbia/HCA fraud settlements - UOW
https://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/dissent/documents/health/columb_2003.html

1. Cached
2. Similar

Columbia/HCA :: The US $1.7 billion fraud settlement. ... Almost half of all the private whistleblower cases and more than half of the total recovered money ...

 

The want to keep people out of the ER and they want short hospital stays...

 

Put me down for $10 on bigotry, I thinks it's paying two to one ATM!