OK....your DEAD....now what?

I like what George Carlin said about this as far as reincarnation.

He said..."OK.....Reincarnation.....it just doesn't make sense to me."

OK say at one time on the Earth there are 6 people....I avoid saying 2 people but because it's controversial but in this example ok yeah F#$K IT!! We have 6 people they die we have 6 more people who get their souls.

Then 6 more people are born and the older 6 die and then BAM!! the younger 6 get their souls so back to 6 people and 6 souls.

Now we have 7.2 BILLION PEOPLE!!!!

All claiming t have souls!!

Somebody is PRINTING UP SOULS!!!

And they kind of lose their value when that happens you know?

AA

 

Well perhaps that author has caught on how to make more money buy at the very least stop ignoring probability and logic?

It's still B.S.

AA

 

And what is really wild is that perhaps all 7.2 billion of us.....
have a soul.... that has existed from something like eternity in the past......

Near death experiencer Aurora Ray stated there were 14 Elohim.....
seven male and seven female.... and all 7.2 billion of us have one of those
Elohim inside us somewhere.......
I suspected we may be connected in the right temporal lobe.....

http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

Genesis 1:26

¶
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

These 14 Elohim may correspond to the seven spirits of G-d?

Revelation 4:5

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

 

Dr. Ian Stevenson travelled all over the world researching about three thousand cases
of children who could remember a past life.... .he did it because he felt it could eventually
revolutionize psychiatry.


This section about moles and birthmarks corresponding to wounds from a past life is
intriguing.....


http://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/research/ian-stevenson.html#a03

 

The moment the "God" term is attached to this subject, the concept of a soul is cheapened. You begin to confuse the unknowable by adding another unknown as the reason for the initial unknowable. Everything about the afterlife is extremely individual and simply does not translate into generality......."IF" is the beginning of everything in this and always will be.

I speculate there is no actual end to me, or "That which is" but, all I have is speculation as do you.

 

This is true and is exactly pretty much says in my post This is why in my various "proofs" for God and the afterlife I refer to humans as energy.

One needs keep in mind the audience. If we start getting into UFT or Quantum Field Theory - things get very strange and loses most folks very quickly.

I did a higher level quantum mechanics class in my 4th year. Have done Schrodinger wave equations - calculated the ground state energy of Hydrogen from first principles and so on. I still have the text around here somewhere.

So matter is a different form of energy. The question that interests me is how energy managed to structure itself into a way that it gain awareness of itself and what the implications are to the concept of God and awareness/ our existence.

What is really weird is is this: A long time ago in a galaxy far far away - energy managed to structure itself in such a way that it became aware of itself.

Then something even stranger happened. This awareness then managed to somehow be able to manipulate the energy that had created the awareness. This means that the energy is consciously manipulating itself.

This then implies that there is a acting force - outside of the energy - that is directing the energy towards a specific goal(s).

 

Maybe you should have listened to them.

 

Daddy, what causes lightning?
Son, the answer is GodDitIt.

I worked 100,000 years ago. For some, it still works today.

 

I guess it does. Who should I believe? A doctor and scientist who put in many years studying and doing research, or you, someone too bitter and lazy to pick up a book, and who gets their jollies off by bashing someone else's beliefs? If you're convinced that there isn't life after death in some form, why are you still in this room? You don't want to hear what anyone else thinks. You just want your own opinion echoed back at yourself.

 

while life after death may in the form of energy transference, there is no reason to believe in the Biblical concept of Heaven unless you're willing to forego logic, science, and common sense.

 

These are the kind of implications the early physicists thought about, but it is kinda taboo today in academia to talk about such things. As I think Feinman supposedly said, "forgot about that and just work the equations". And from what I can tell from listening to some retired physicists who now discuss such implications, you have to wait until retirement to do this. I have to accept what they say, as they have the experience and not me.

Of course, the materialistic biologists would say that what you are talking about just happened by chance, or so it would seem to me, given materialism is indeed self limiting in inquiry.

I am not a materialist. I tend to agree with Campbell that Consciousness is fundamental, not matter. And this fundamental of Consciousness is the acting force, outside of energy. It appeals to me in that I find "purpose" more acceptable than not. That this reality, this universe has a purpose, whatever it may be, tickles my fancy, whereas chance is devoid of any higher meaning. Yes, I admit it, I want higher meaning, purpose, as opposed to others who demand no purpose, no meaning, a kind of nihilism that my mind does not find constructive, nor psychological healthy. While many horrible things has been done in the name of religion, there is no reprieve from the evilness of man, with atheism. So atheism does not do a thing in regards to evil. For we have not seen that at all. Nor does it address human suffering, in fact, it takes away from what the belief in purpose, meaning, has contributed to lessen some of human suffering. For psychological suffering can be a literal hell as well as physical suffering.

Anyways, I think that the implications as you noted are worthy of consideration and discussion. I once heard a physicist say that the implications of what you have spoken of will be what gets rid of the contentious nature one finds between science and religion. But that would take a revolution is the atmosphere one finds in academia, where such implications are taboo to discuss seriously. For as Rupert Sheldrake says, academics are strict materialists, and this has an effect in some way upon the discussion of those implications you mentioned.

 

I might even agree with that answer but, this depends heavily on one's definition of God.

The idea that some genocidal, xenophobic, flip flopping, hypocritical and contradictory sky fairy; complete with the most petty and nasty of human emotions and characteristics - did it - and that this sky fairy is also the all knowing, omnipotent, eternal creator .. is beyond far fetched.

 

I do not know that material biologists necessarily conflict with the conclusion of my previous post - that there is a force that acts on the energy.

Evolution merely looks at how things happen or happened - not so much the overriding force.

There is a difference between saying "evolution" contradicts the - some creator did it in this way 6000 years ago claim - and discussion of some external force that is guiding the tendency of energy to form complex structures that become aware of their own existence.

 

Would you be more comfortable with the Hindu concept? Or the Buddhist? For both would involve consciousness being fundamental, instead of matter. You are a materialist. So that box enslaves you, in the same way any ideological belief, based upon assumption enslaves. We seem to forget that philosophical materialism, which science rests upon, that matter is fundamental, cannot be discerned as to be fact or not. For it would require a point of view, outside of this material universe, which is impossible. We cannot separate ourselves from it, to look apart from it. All that we can really say is that agreeing to see reality with matter being fundamental, has allowed us to see the universe in a manner as to understand it, in generally a mechanistic manner, and this has led to technology, and the manipulation of matter and energy. But that understanding, that manipulation, in no way proves matter is fundamental. It only proves that this way of looking can be used, utilized, to produce something. It has utility. Therein is its great value. But utility is only evidence for utility.

 

Yet this is the model of god that some people put forth as the only kind of creative force possible, which for me, is of course highly improbable. This image of god, if we want to use that word, is very unsophisticated, and today with modern intellects seems highly childish. Yet this is the image always used to discount any creative force. If one were to bring up the ideas of the physicist Tom Campbell, the ridicule morphs into calling it nonsense. And I doubt anyone of these people would listen to a word of what Campbell would say. Kinda like the mindset of post modernism, Antifa. No discourse allowed. For no one talks to Nazis. You hit them.

 

I'm not a materialist by choice, but default. You can't expect grown men to believe in things that go against evidence, science, logic, reason, and their natural instinct.

 

You don't think Dawkins would call you a purveyor of Woo? Have you listened to his discussions in regards to an outside force that acts on energy? Evolution discounts any kind of outside force that might be involved in the process of macro evolution, and your outside force at a deeper level, is not materialism. Evolutionists are strict materialists. Your outside force contradicts matter as being the only fundamental. So your outside force cannot exist.

 

Most Christian and Islamic religious folks do not actually understand the nature of the God (as per scripture) that they believe in. Most will never seriously consider (if the even come across such ideas) the picture of God as per scripture given above.

You have seen what happens when the fundamentalists on here come across such a depiction of their God. They immediately go into denial mode and try to avoid discussion - normally by Ad Hom fallacy - demonization of the messenger "you are just an atheist that hates Christians" or some other fallacious nonsense.

Part of the effectiveness of the sophisticated mind control technique- " questioning or not believing certain tenets from some holy book will lead to you being horribly tortured .. not just for a day or two but for eternity" is that when adherents come across information that conflicts with ingested dogma - through television or some random conversation - they will just dismiss it and think no further.

It is the "thought stopping" capability of these techniques that make them so effective. The adherent is not consciously aware of what is happening. The "fear", that if they stop believing an extremely horrible thing will happen to them, is lodged in deep in their subconscious. The adherent will then try to avoid any thoughts that might lead to this horrible fate.

I am not sure if you have read any of my posts where I have gone through the evolution of religious mind control over the millennia, but these techniques are quite evolved and this evolution increased their effectiveness over time.

 

It is commonly referred to as debate and I have even heard there are places devoted to providing a place to do so.

 

That one has already done this but, not in an intelligent way. There was no real discussion - just sitting in a peanut gallery throwing insults and demonization.

As stated earlier -evolutionists are in general not considering the question from the same perspective I have put forward. They are just stating the cause and effect relationship (which is fact) of genetic mutation to cause change in organisms (or environmental conditions in relation to abiogenesis) and proposing that this is how humans came to be.

This is a different from the conversation of how energy gained knowledge of its own existence to begin with.

This is a subtle but important distinction. Say I throw a rock into a pond and you come by and see the ripples in the pond.

Having seen this ripple pattern before (and having heard the kerplunk) you suggest that the ripples in the pond were from someone throwing a rock into the pond. You have answered the question "how were those ripples in the pond created".

What is not answered is why someone threw the rock to begin with or how that thought came to be.

If we start from the perspective of randomness. Energy exists but is not aware of itself.

One day after many random combinations this energy happens into a structure that is no longer random. Organized structures appear and the chaos has become a little less chaotic. The energy then continues to form more organized and more complex structures. The forces of chaos tries to destroy these structures and succeeds until one day a structure develops with the capability of self replication. This overcomes the forces of chaos as this energy structure can self replicate faster than the forces of chaos can destroy those structures.

This is the critical step in evolution from inanimate to animate. For a long time it was argued that this step could not happen. We have now shown that this is indeed what can happen in early earth conditions.

Those energy structures then become more organized and complex over time until one day the energy becomes aware that it exists - the first thought ! The thought itself is an energy structure. The thought is in fact part of the overall structure.

These energy structures (thoughts) continue to be created. While these "thoughts" are part of the whole structure, they exist in a portion of the structure itself that we refer to as the brain.

OK - we need to stop here and ask why this energy structure would create "thoughts" to begin with ? What is the point ? This energy structure could just go on becoming more and more complex without knowing of its own existence.

What purpose does this serve. How did these energy structures one day figure out that they existed ?

Leaving that aside - we come to the big problem. Awareness one day pops in to existence (energy structures within the whole that know of the existence of the whole). This- while unexplained - is where the questions of the reductionist stops.
"It just happened" .. OK fine.

What this does not explain is how awareness managed to manifest itself into physical realty. It is one thing for these energy structures to become self aware. It is quite another for these energy structures that relate to awareness manage make the entire structure move.

1) how do thoughts (energy structures) manage to somehow get control over the creation of these energy structures. Directed thought. Thought towards some goal. Thoughts that direct the creation of more thoughts.

If the thoughts were generated out of the energy structure - how then do these thoughts start to direct the new thoughts that the electrical structure is creating ?

You can not have it both ways ... either these thoughts (small energy structures within the whole) are generated as a function of the larger energy structure or they are not. How do these thoughts start directing which thoughts the energy structure is creating if it is the energy structure that is directing the creation of the thoughts ?

Classic chicken an egg conundrum. If the the energy structure is not responsible for directing the creation of these thoughts then, who is ?

What also interesting is how these thoughts manifested themselves into physical reality. How these thoughts managed to direct the energy structure to create the thoughts it wanted in such a way as to gain control over other parts of the overall energy structure ? Look down at pinky finger on your left hand. Now make it move.

Congratulations - you have just directed your thoughts in such a way as to manifest them into physical reality.
Now tell me how you did that ? How did the thoughts (energy structures that were created by the larger structure) manage 1) to gain control over themselves and 2) to gain control over the whole structure ?

The "It just happened" response does not explain anything.

 

Are you perhaps under the assumption that humans are the ony self aware intelligence?

Even just on Earth?

 

I made no reference or inference to the Biblical concept of Heaven, but the energy that survives is
both conscience and sentient. Many scientists, the people who actually study such things, will disagree with you. You don't speak for science - you're not their spokesperson. And the Bible is not the last word on the afterlife, there are other books, the Tripitaka and the Vedas to name a couple.
Wearing blinders causes tunnel vision and all you see are Christian beliefs, perhaps you have them in your sights, as though the whole world revolves around the Bible which of course it does not.
My beliefs are not rooted in any one book. They come from reading hundreds, and the Bible is not among them, and from my own paranormal experiences.

 

Humans are not the only self aware organisms - even here on earth ! My cat is well aware that she exists and that I exist.

If some configuration energy was able to gain knowledge of its own existence here on earth, it then seems highly unlike that something similar is not happening in many places throughout the universe.

I figure the energy itself (as a whole) might know that it exists. We could be just emanations from a single Godhead.

Aliens may have visited earth in the past ! - or may have assisted in the creation of humans "As ancient alien theorists suggest"

 

Near death experiencer Christian Andreason claims to have been shown something shocking about your, and my, and his most ancient soul......
and due to the caliber of all that he wrote I personally consider him to
be an exceptionally credible witness.......
because what he wrote is so well done that it comes down to
only a few possible explanations for the caliber of his explanation for
pretty much all aspects of spirituality......

Either:
1. the man is a brilliant creative writer or.....
2. he did an astonishing amount of research into the paranormal, (which he did not do)....
or
3. he had a near death experience and came back with a brilliant explanation for all that
is happening around us in the higher dimensions of space - time.


http://www.politicalforum.com/index...reason-is-he-onto-something-important.401732/

http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

Near death experiencer Mellen Benedict decided to term this our "over soul" but I have been
wondering if "inner soul" might be more accurate......
does fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth dimensional space - time in a way hide within four dimensional space time matter?????

 

Near death experiencer Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D.
was shown that he was the reincarnation of one of the twelve
disciples and he heard the following message during one of his
Prayer of Silence / meditation episodes during that past life:

http://www.thomastwin.com/7 A Thomas samples.html