I don't need religion to be a good person.

Ahh, no. Unlike you, I don't think it is "good" to put a gun to someone's head to take his/hers resources and give them to someone else. IMO, "good" is freewill giving.

 

I don't think your ad hominem lace diatribe is worthy of a reply. If you'd like to frame your reply in a rational, topical manner, i might consider a reply.

 

Do you believe in God?
Do you believe in an afterlife?
Do you believe our actions and words here on this earth matter as to where we spend that afterlife?

If you cannot agree to all three above then why are you so concerned if you are a "good person" or not?

But if you do agree with all three above then what difference does it make what your definition of a good person is? Would not God's definition be what you should be trying to discern?

 

You're telling me you're only good because of God.
?

The concern, should derive from not being an ******** and not seeing others suffering. Does it matter if there's an afterlife or not?
What matters to some is in their actions taken in the here and the now and the life we lead to leave the best future for our offspring.
Why do you question someone's concern with being good? Does it matter if God exists or not?
Or are you somehow just being good to appease God and that it's in the hope to earn a better afterlife?

It speaks volumes of somebody who needs God just to be good.

The very fact you question my concern for leading a good life doesn't go well since you've corrupted the good by questioning it without God.
I'd advise you to not concern yourself with minor details and to have a little faith in your fellow human as well.

People don't need God to be good, you have to understand your scepticism for someone to be good 'with no reason according to you' suggests that perhaps you're faking being good - and that you're only good because you believe in God and an afterlife, instead of why you really should be good.

 

I agree and feel the same.

 

How do you define 'empathy' without making a moral judgement? How does 'empathy' further the species? Help the stronger to survive? Are not all of these 'virtues' just moral platitudes, ingrained & indoctrinated into people from their youth?

 

In other words, you have avoided answering my first three simple questions. Ok. But why are you afraid or unwilling to answer those questions?

>>You're telling me you're only good because of God.?<<
Not sure how I would view being good or moral if I were not certain God existed? I know if I thought there were no God or afterlife I would go mad.

>>Does it matter if there's an afterlife or not?<<
More than anything else in this entire world or my entire life, yes.

>>What matters to some is in their actions taken in the here and the now and the life we lead to leave the best future for our offspring.<<
Yeah, so? I think if that is all the further they take it that is very sad and not well thought out.

>>Why do you question someone's concern with being good? Does it matter if God exists or not? Or are you somehow just being good to appease God and that it's in the hope to earn a better afterlife?<<
YES, I already intimated that. I cannot understand how so many humans operate! Especially those who are intelligent and living with some degree of comfort or security, in other words, not having to spend every moment of the day just trying to survive. I cannot understand you people in the least. The evidence for God and life after death is everywhere. For you to ignore that is inexplicable madness, imo.

>>It speaks volumes of somebody who needs God just to be good.<<
And to me this is a bogus defense. Because it implies a totally false sense of goodness in the one who acts as though they are so good for themselves (false) and would be just as good if they knew there were a heaven or a hell awaiting them. I do not buy that for one second.

>>The very fact you question my concern for leading a good life doesn't go well since you've corrupted the good by questioning it without God.I'd advise you to not concern yourself with minor details and to have a little faith in your fellow human as well.<<
I have no idea what you are trying to proffer here, but from what I can tell it is a cop out to ignore God and an absolutely dangerous path to take in life.

>>People don't need God to be good…<<
Except you do not even know what “being good” means or entails. Since God exists, your whole philosophy has little value for the GOOD of any man. In my opinion.

 

I do not believe in god.
I do not believe in an afterlife
I do not believe our actions and words on earth matter anywhere except on earth.

So it matters a great deal to me what MY definition of what makes a good person because I and my family live in this world.


My definition of a good person adheres to the following:

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Live and let live.
Do no deliberate harm unless in self defense.

No god, no scripture, no supernatural occurances, no afterlife required.

 

Well for those of us who are certain of God I can assure you it matters a great deal more what makes a good person and how we assist our families. So don’t think for a second being Christian reduces our involvement or concerns of earthly matters.

Yeah, wonderful. But the consequences for you if you do occasionally lie or step out and no one becomes aware of it, the consequences may not be that great. But for a Christian, the consequences could be fatal, so once again, we adhere to being “a good person” for reasons far more compelling than yours.

So in other words, you have no higher moral ground or altruistic motives than we do, even less. Plus, it must not bother you all that much that your “good person objectives” are a gigantic failure in many ways amongst the denizens of America and beyond. Apparently, it has not stopped huge numbers of unbelievers (if not the majority) from being greedy, selfish, lustful, envious, gossipy, egotistical, dishonest, and beyond. Or do you think this world is working out just swimmingly for the majority?

 

All I know is who the conduit for morality has been. Whether it is Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, or other religions, religion has been the conduit for morality, teaching it. I doubt if religion had never existed, there would have been a conduit for teaching morality. But we will never know, because religion always served as the conduit. Make of that what you will. If not for these conduits, how would you even have a moral center? Are such things not taught? Just as a culture is something that is taught to its members?

We never had to depend upon atheists to tell us of moral behavior. How many atheist organizations today make it their purpose to teach morality? Do they depend upon religion to do this for them? Or do they just not see the value in it?

 

You might lack the ability to determine good from bad, but please, don't you begin to treat me like I was you, that's insulting.
Shockingly, you insist I answer you when I answer to no one.
You don't like my answer?
Tough.
You have the inability to function without God and be a good person.
Tough.
Your own short comings don't apply to all and certainly don't apply here.

Your weakness is disturbing since you dared think of me as equal to you when, I'd never say 99.9% of the things you want me to answer.

 

First of all, YOU'RE MISSING IT / THE POINT ENTIRELY - when you clutter it with God, lesson number one of why I thought answering you any better than I did was beneath me.

Number 2, you're just lost to me, if you're so damn needy you actually need God to tell you these things otherwise you'd go mad and probably shoot up the place, no God, what does it matter right? - Wrong.

Trios; you speak of God, but you may as well name Allah and do Allah's deeds to get your 40 Virgins in the after life, if I'm honest, since to me, you're nothing but a phoney if you're only good to gain favours in the afterlife. -And when I was replying to your questions earlier @vanityofvanitys - I just pictured in my head talking to a devout Muslim man, for some reason.

 

Empathy is something that can be measured using PET scanners. That's how psychopaths are diagnosed - no activity in the empathy center.

Empathy isn't a value judgment. It is physical.

No doubt that people with psychopathy need something like religion to teach them how to compensate for their lack of empathy.

Children who are psychopaths subconsciously mimic other children to fit in.

 

I really do not care how you phrase this exchange, to me you sound like someone not very comfortable in their own skin. The fact you become offended because of being challenged is telling.
The evidence for God is found in so many different ways. You deny it, and it sounds to me only because you do not want it to be. Other than that, you avoid answering specifics. Ok. I hope you are happy.

(Feel free to avoid me or correct me if I am wrong. )

No, that's not it at all. I would go mad because of the thought of all this ending forever and never seeing those dear to me again -- that would be most dreadful and upsetting to me.

No, I guess it's just I have been blessed enough to understand what God is saying to us. That is why I do what I do. Call it a gift of wisdom which you could attain as well if you so desired and were humble enough in seeking it.

 

Never said it didn't. Its just that from my perspective "earthly matters" are all there is.

I am extremely aware of the compelling nature of fear. I CHOOSE to be a good human being for no other reason than because I believe in the power our "humanity" (both good and bad). You require the threat of dire consequences.

Well from where I sit I have a much higher perspective than you, since as a believer you can be absolved of your "sins" where as I cannot be absolved and take the consequences of all them to my grave. It is probable that you and I differ immensely in how we internally "negotiate" with our conscience.

And not to put too fine a point on it, but RELIGIOUS BELIEF has NEVER stopped huge numbers of believers from being greedy, selfish, lustful, envious, gossipy, egotistical, dishonest and beyond.

I am certain that the majority of people on this planet are much better off than they were in 1953. Social evolution is an inevitable result of the human condition.[/QUOTE]

 

Whatever gets you through the night, but it's a little insulting having you question me when I'm not here to be questioned.
I'm defending a good idea from being made stupid when you begin to clutter it up with extra baggage like 'how' 'why' ect...
I'm protecting my good idea from idiots missing the point trying to question it and me.

It's not rocket science, @ChrisL said it best when she remarked on empathy...
It's empathy I have, it's empathy that makes me do what I do and not be an ********. Y'know.

But I'm standing by my OP, not really looking for people to question it, you either get it, or you don't. - If you don't get it, well, whatever, I can't help you suddenly get it if you haven't got it from the OP.

 

Look, if you just took the Bible has proof of time travel...
Or if you understood it's pointless to debate with me who said what when because, as far as The Rhetoric of Life is concerned, you're all mindless pieces of **** unless you can prove to me you don't need a Bible to be good.

 

Hmm.. so 'empathy' sounds a lot like 'morality'.. it is something contained within each person.. unless you are a sociopath..

But why is this 'empathy' there? Why is it considered 'good'? It seems to me that this 'empathy' isn't something that favors he strong, or enhances survival of the fittest. So why is this 'trait', that has no useful function to human species, there? How can you make a value judgement on a sociopath, who just rejects your notion of 'good', & replaces it with 'might makes right?'

 

Come, come.. where is your empathy?

 

Where's theirs? All I see wilful submission, deference than accepting somethings and clutter, but, whatever, I'm not here to be insulted or to submit.
I'm just here to be me, maybe others too can be, and realise, that they are the power and that the power is in them, God doesn't work magic because God is magic and Trix are for kids. You have the power, you do it when you decide to get up in the morning, when you decide to get ready, when you and only you decide what you do, no one can blame God for your mistakes, the power's always has been in you/us, everyone blessed with an able body who's sound of mind. - True say, some are more blessed than others, but count all the blessings you do have in this shitty world of ours full of dictators calling themselves Gods (when they're not).
You probably don't need religion to believe in God, since God is a bunch of people looking for answers, and the answer is God.

 

Excellent point. The very existence of 'morality' is a testament to religious instruction, whether you believe in an absolute 'morality' or one that is just indoctrinated. Take away 'religion!' in any culture, & you take away the entire basis for morality in that culture.

Now, one can argue that there exists a 'moral code' that is inherent in each person, regardless of their religious beliefs or upbringing, but that is a problem for the atheist... where did this 'moral code' come from? Why do people have this 'sense'in them, if it is not a Real Thing, but is only a human construct?

And, as VofV pointed out, if you look at cultures where the moral code is weakened, & where Amorality runs rampant, the results are very much a negative.. crime, looting, murder, fraud, & ever manner of human 'evil' is loosed upon such a society, & it breaks down. You can see it in the fall of rome. You can see it in the french revolution. You can see it in US culture, now, as the basis for morality has been undermined for decades, & we reap the harvest of that indoctrination, from the atheistic/naturalistic left.

 

Hey, you have your beliefs, others have theirs. The wonder of America is the 'empathy' we have for differences in religious beliefs.

 

I'm British, but, we have it too.

 

Some religious people are very nice and they actually walk the walk instead of just talking the talk. Others are just annoying peckers.

 

So would you say both types you note are the same percentage amongst professed Christians as found in the non-religious in America and the affluent West? Or perhaps this faith had a significant impact in altering that ratio?

Or maybe you think Christianity fosters an equal increase in annoying peckers as it does in very nice people?