Drugs,Good Bad And Ugly

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Guess Who, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Make VD not war was what most of the freaks did.
    It was all according to who was making war too. Most of their songs were not anything like their lifestyles either, isn't that ironic. Of course some were CCR and Stones did a lot of war type songs, but even most of their songs was about romance not just sex.
     
  2. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    More accurately it is the fact that the united states is bound by international treaties to maintain and continue the so-called "war on drugs" indefinitely. It has no authority to stop even if it wanted to take such a course of action.
     
  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Each their own.
    I :love: :weed:
    Coffee doctor's strength ;) and lately alcohol too.

    Nicotine, I gave it my best effort but just couldn't get hooked.
    Cocaine, What's the big deal. Yes I would get a sore nose, numb front teeth and
    feel I was smarter than anyone in the room and 30 seconds ahead of them
    but NOT worth it. Many times some one would say it was because I hadn't
    tried the good stuff, theirs. And it just never grabbed me.

    Wish a good hallucinogen was available now and then. Mushrooms / Peyote.
    I could use getting by consciousness "Reset Button" pressed.

    But, that's just Moi.
    Among a minority who couldn't get hooked on Nicotine or Cocaine. And :heart: :weed:

    Any drug discussion should acknowledge they are not all the same to all of us.
    Although my pharmacology professor would say,
    "I.V. opiates are so good you can't afford to try them once".
    I sure would like to try smoking Opium in an "Opium Den" from the 19th Century.

    Any discussion of drugs should realize we all have out own, "cup of tea"
    And carbohydrates count as drugs!


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g


    Canada.jpg
    They get high on ice
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
  4. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    I don't even have to ask who created that 'treaty'. The original treaty themselves while destroying others.
    America was once independent and sovereign. Till seditious leadership sold us off to the highest bidder while sending in what would become our worst enemies to cause divisions and change our whole concept of who,what, we were.
    Of course I just complain here because we are done.
     
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  5. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    I hadn't thought of that. That's awkward.
     
  6. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Gotta have the coffee not so much the carbs but some carbs yes. No alcohol much didn't need it I could dance,skate, be entertained all night without it and never drugs.


     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  7. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    My brother had Fentanyl after an operation and he said that it is very agreeable!
     
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  8. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Alas, when we were young it was boundless energy. Not for me any more. And coffee doesn't do it.
     
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  9. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Yes till it hooks you,lol. I know all about drugs since they have interfered with my family and friends.
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After reading what that other guy posted below, yours is sane and rational and unlike his post, you have some empathy, whereas his is almost inhuman, IMO. I gotta feeling his reality is strongly black and white, when our reality comes in shades in many areas. And it also appears he knows little about drugs and the hard fact that mankind has used various drugs for our entire history, and it never destroyed any of those cultures. And he does not seem to know that it is only in modern history that drugs became illegal, for once upon a time you could get potions at your general store that contained cannabis, opium, and cocaine. To treat our ailments at a time when there was very little medicine at all. He also seems oblivious to the idea that making drugs illegal, with all of the money involved, from criminal elements has done much to create criminality, in regards to other crimes. Back when all of these drugs were legal, and cheap, there was not the related criminal behaviour of today when it comes to illegal drugs. Making them illegal helped to create the other crimes he speaks of. And BTW, when all of these drugs were legal and cheap to buy, american society did not implode nor was it reduced to drug related crimes. The sane measure to take is as you suggested, legalize them, regulate them and tax them. Colorado took in so much in taxes on pot as to give their taxpayers a refund check from the taxes on pot. I have not checked lately but Portugal tried an experiment with drugs where the last time I read about it, was very successful, perhaps because it was a much more sane drug policy. Of course, you never hear much about their successes, for it makes our own war on drugs look like what it is, poorly thought out, and basically insanely harmful.





    Your course of action would never achieve the goals you have envisioned. For if it would actually work, as you so naively believe, the history of humanity would have seen the end to all drug use long, long ago. And humanity has used various drugs in differing cultures and times, for our entire history. The truth is, by making drugs illegal, with harsh punishment, this creates other crimes that we then say are drug related. And yet many of these crimes that occur around illegal drugs, are caused and driven by the fact that drugs were made illegal. Anything that is illegal, drives up the price. It introduces violent criminal elements, turf wars, corrupts the police, and creates crime by the mere fact that they are illegal to sell or buy. We should have learned that from Prohibition, but we seldom learn anything when arguments are driven by the emotions instead of looking at drugs and drug use rationally.

    The cost to society involving illegal drugs is far more costly and damaging than the actual drug use itself. So, making them and keeping them illegal drives up the costs while nothing is solved, rights are taken away in the war on drugs, and we took what we saw as a problem, drug use, and made it exponentially much worse, in human life and treasure, a grand waste, caused by the emotions of some people, perhaps like yourself?

    Drugs and drug use is as old as humanity is. So, it is not going away. Given this hard fact, and if you want to minimize drug use, a sane and rational approach must be taken. Legalize them, regulate them, tax them and then strongly educate, using facts not hyperbole and lies. And price the drugs where they are affordable, just as buying a bottle of cheap wine or beer is affordable, and does not require robbing someone, or breaking into homes to find goods to trade for highly priced drugs. You would get rid of so much of the drug related violence, and other crimes related to a drug being illegal, and very profitable for the sellers. And you would be left with a certain percentage of our population that would be drug users. Just as a certain percentage are alcoholics. Take a fraction of the cost of waging an unwinnable war on drugs, and offer free rehabs for those who want to get off of their addictions.

    But in order to do this, to act sanely, one must set the emotions aside, and with some people, it is their emotions which keep them away from sane rationality when it comes to this issue.

    BTW, in case you did not know, most drug users do not OD or die from their use of drugs. And many of those that do OD and die is because the opiates, like heroin are illegal, and are not regulated as to the purity of the drug. So, you get used to this kind of heroin, and you know how much to use at a given time, but then you buy another kind which is more pure, less cut and the amount that was just right of the last bag you bought, will now OD you. So a lack of regulation and it being illegal is the cause of many of these deaths from an opiate OD.

    It just looks to me like you do not know that much about these drugs, and their use. And it shows in the manner in which you believe might go a long way in solving a problem. Take a look at what Portugal did, when they decided to change their drug policies and how that worked out. Sure beats the hell out of our own insane madness, in this lost war on drugs. But try to get rid of a burocracy like the DEA and watch the push back, the lobbying, and the outright lies of propaganda that you will inevitably see. And watch Big Pharma spend billions on keeping drugs illegal, and the DEA intact, with their war on humanity. After all they are waging a war on what humanity has done, since we dropped down from the trees and tried out that mushroom growing out of a manure patty. Or the first time they drink fermented fruit, and liked the taste, and the effects.

    Have you ever looked at the liquor, beer and wine list, and the amounts used, when our Founders were trying to put this nation together, and fight a war with the Brits? And they probably were smoking some of that reefer they grew back then, alongside their hemp patches used to make great rope and paper. How did they turn out? And of course, this is why drugs used to be legal and cheap, available at your general store, in elixars and snake oil remedies. For the real problems only begin if you are stupid enough to make them illegal.
     
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  11. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Coffee wakes me up and work keeps me energized but I am slower to get up and get busy now. I'm burnt out on gardening, canning [ which is time to can again] yard work and animals. I need a vacation but where do I go now? I'd love to go to the reef but not much fish there anymore, travelign is more dangerous and so I just come here and debate.
     
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  12. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    The destruction of families is a terrible thing. I can't imagine how your daughter copes with raising her grandchildren and her daughter being in prison.
     
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  13. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Very informing.
     
  14. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Not so good at times, she also sends money to her, which is taken at times for ' fines' for talking back or just asking questions. She at first was really going nuts and crying everytime she called but now accepting it a little bit more.
    It is even worse with all the reverse racism going on now. But what can you do, she had all kinds of chances and treatments.
     
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  15. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    It sounds awful and I feel for you.
    Will she have the opportunity to study and have access to rehabilitation while in prison?
     
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  16. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Yes she is taking a couple of courses now. She also has always been real energetic so she works too she changed courses so forgot what she is taking now. She is a very pretty girl and talented best dancer singer out of the 11. I use to keep them all summer and taught them all how to dance she did the Sound Of Music song and routine beautifully " I Am Sixteen ". She also did the waltz as did all of them. And of course they did their own dancing once teens. They took turns being male female rolls. Of course the affection was left out, just the song.

     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  17. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think if taken as prescribed the liver survives. Most of the liver damage that comes from opiate pain pills like percosets and Vicodin actually was caused by the tylenol, high dosing. What happens is that as a tolerance is created, and the addict has to increase his opiate dosage, he is also increasing his tylenol dosage. And taking high doses of tylenol destroys the liver, and more so if you mix booze in with it, which some opiate addicts do. In the last couple of years, big pharma reduced its tylenol levels in these pain pills. For the normal dose is around 325 miligrams, of tylenol but some of the pain pills came with 500, or even 650 mil. of tylenol. So, if the addict is now having to take say 3 10 mil. vicodins to feel it, he is loading up and ODing on tylenol which destroys the liver in higher dosage. I learned this info from my daughter who is an RN, and worked for a time in the ER here, before moving over to the cardiac clinic where they put in stints and such.

    So, with oxycotin, which is oxycodone, the same opiate in a percoset, which also contains tylenol, if taken as prescribed, for severe pain, and some people actually need this pain killer for some quality of life, there is little worry of liver damage unless you have other conditions. That is the way I understood it anyways.

    This new war on opiates is thoughtless and is creating suffering for those people who have a legit reason to be on pay meds, like oxycotin, percoset or Vicodin. Many doctors are so paranoid as to allow their patients to suffer needlessly because they are afraid the DEA will bust in on them and charge them with a crime for writing scripts for pain meds, to people who actually need them, and are not using the meds in order to abuse them. My daughter informed me of this as well. In fact, in the ER here, they can only give you a pain med, 3 times per year. So, my nephew has some weird condition where he produces kidney stones all of the time and is always passing them. And his doctor cannot stop this from happening habitually. And so when he gets a really big one, he will go to the ER, to get some pain relief. And by george if you ever suffered from a stone like this, you know how badly it hurts, which unbearable. Well, with the new laws or policies on this pain med issue, our local ER is limited to 3 times per year to get pain relief from the ER. And that means that when he gets his 4th large stone, it is just tough do do, for him. For they can give him nothing to relieve the pain! And how thoughtless and stupid is that? But our idiots in DC always seem to over react, but you better believe if they were in really severe pain, they would get the rules broken in order to get rid of their own pain. But the rest of us. To hell with us!

    And who knows when these scumbags in DC will start acting like they have brains? And put an end to people who are in legit pain, continuing to suffer because some brainless politician took away pain meds from those who need them badly, in order to keep some other people from ODing on heroin, which is illegal and not prescribed by a doctor? For when you hear the stats on opiate ODs, you are not just seeing the stats on prescribed pain pills, but all opiates which includes heroin. And most of the opiate deaths come from heroin, when the new bag the addict gets is stronger than his last bag. Yet he uses the same amount, not knowing at that point he is using a more pure drug, and is stronger. So, when the MSM says death from opiates, it can be oxycontin, Vicodin, percosets, or heroin. Or even fentonyl, but not sure I spelled that last drug right. I hear it is much more powerful than these other opiates and they prescribe it in patches. Some of the heroin is said to contain this new powerful drug which is also killing people from ODs.

    The point is, we would see fewer ODs from opiates, if they were legal and regulated.
     
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  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    they benefit by forcing people to buy prescription meds vs non-patentable natural meds
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    oxycodone with acetaminophen - not sure why they add the acetaminophen

    anything abused is bad for you though, when you need it oxycodone works
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no... but if you went through surgery and really needed strong pain meds, the Oxycontin woudl be preferable imo

    when I had surgery it worked so good I stopped taking it... mistake
     
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  21. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good romance songs, and there were so many! Remember 3 dog night, and their love song...Just an Old Fashioned Love Song? A love song about a love song.

    I still listen to the old stuff, from the 50s through the 80s. And I have been shocked and astounded at what passes for music and song today. What in the hell happened to a cultured musical taste? lol Where has all the really good music gone? When my youngest nephew drops by to check on me, his most ancient uncle, I can hear him coming down my road from a mile away. He has a system with a huge amp and these woofers and subwoofers, and from what it sound like, he is listening to bass compositions. When he turns into my drive, I can feel the bass jiggling my guts. But it seems that the only alternative he has to offer these old ears is rap, hip hop or whatever the hell they call these faux songs. Speaking out a vulgar, classless song, in cadence isn't music to my old ears. And yet that is what you hear coming from the sound systems of the youth, black and white. At least when my own dad said he didn't understand the rock and roll that I was listening to, he at least did admit it was music. But I can never call what the kids listen to today, music. All that I hear is this cadence, and so many use the same cadence, but where is the music? Yes, it is one helluva generation gap here. lol.

    While I only appreciated my parent's music later in life, at least I recognized what they liked as being music and song. But I cannot recognize the music to rap and hip hoppity. Is the appeal of this music all about the vulgarity, rendered in a cadence? And what is up with this too much bass, ODing on bass riffs which are not that good anyways?
     
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  22. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    No good music after 1970.
     
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  23. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Yes I too learned to like my parents music later even mamas favorites, Johnny Mathis and dean Martin. But she was a very good pianist so I grew up hearing all kings o music from her playing and singing.
    She could even do a mean Jerry Lee, Great Balls Of Fire only she would stand and play while doing the ' shimmy '.
     
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  24. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    lol. I would have enjoyed seeing her mimic Jerry Lee and his antics on Great Balls of Fire.

    Funny in how I had to age in order to appreciate what my parents listened to. My folks like Frank Sinatra, while I was digging the early Elvis. I recall how when he appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show, they only showed him from the waist up in certain parts of his performance. lol. Quite the gyrator of hips, which was seen as obscene by many of the older people. Vulgar, corrupting the minds of the youth. But within a few years, everyone was gyrating if not twisting and shouting. lol. Well, the youth were.
     
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  25. Guess Who

    Guess Who Well-Known Member

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    Tylanol is a very dangerous drug even taken alone. I never take that it hurt my stomach 30 years first time i took it. So now I take aspirin with food even if it just a few saltines I also chew up the pills so they don't sit on my stomach while desolving.
     

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