Protesters cover UVA’s Thomas Jefferson statue in black shroud

We have no idea what she was "perfectly willing" to do; she did what she felt she must given her situation.

 

I really don't know enough about Jefferson's sex life to determine whether or not he was a serial rapist but it's on the people making that accusation to substantiate their accusation. Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone substantiate that accusation so I'm not going to give it any credence until they do.

 

You are not a very honest person. That must be why you persist in your errors despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

That quote refers specifically to tribes that committed "cruel massacres" against "the women and children of our frontiers", not some generalized desire to exterminate native Americans.

Did you think taking that quote out of its context would fool me? Or just the other people reading this? Or perhaps you are trying to fool yourself as well?

 

Of course we do. She told Jefferson she would stay in France if he did not agree to certain conditions. That means she was willing to stay in France, away from her family, contrary to what you and other ignorant individuals have claimed.

No she didn't. She exercised a choice of her own free will. The evidence proves this. She chose to return to the USA with Jefferson because he agreed to her conditions. Not only does this prove she was willing to stay in France, contrary to what you and others have suggested, but it also proves she trusted Jefferson to keep his word, which he did.

I know you really, really want to believe that Jefferson was an evil rapist, but there is simply no evidence in support of that belief. Indeed, the evidence flatly contradicts that narrative.

 

DNA evidence has long since confirmed that Jefferson fathered multiple children with a woman unable to legally consent. This is serial rape. Your denial of the overwhelming, longstanding evidence does not constitute its non-existence.

 

Your desire to avoid the overwhelming, well-documented evidence of numerous calls by Jefferson for genocide by execution and/or cruel expulsion, and your denial of the facts of his serial rapes do not negate that these are 100% factual.

I'm sorry it works this way, but maybe fiction would suit your temperament more?

 

There is massive, irrefutable proof of Jefferson's serial rapes and genocidal raving, but you continue to deny it.

But I've never said Jefferson was evil; I've simply stated the facts of his serial rapes and genocidal outbursts.

You continue to fail to understand the situation Hemings was in, and to deny the historic facts of his conduct and proclamations.

The evidence is in full support of Jefferson as a slave-holding, genocidal serial rapist.

This will not change, so you may want to work on accepting it.

 

I never denied anything - I said it's on you and others to substantiate your accusation that Jefferson was a serial rapist.

I'm simply unaware of any evidence that proves that Sally Hemmings did not have consensual sexual relations with Jefferson, and I don't know what the legal age of consent was in Paris and Virginia at the time. To my limited knowledge, the only thing that Jefferson and Hemmings' children prove is that they had sexual relations with one another - whether it was consensual or not I do not know. Furthermore, I don't know if Hemmings ever spoke of her relationship with Jefferson or if their children ever spoke of their parents' relationship. I presume you have some evidence that will enlighten me in this regard (?).

 

*woooooooosh*

I'll repeat:

DNA evidence has long since confirmed that Jefferson fathered multiple children with a woman unable to legally consent. This is serial rape. Your denial of the overwhelming, longstanding evidence does not constitute its non-existence.

You're denying proven and irrefutable FACTS.

It's like arguing with someone who refuses to acknowledge that George Washington was ever president...

And it's Hemings.

 

No, just a bill clinton impersonator....

 

*woooooooosh*

I KNOW JEFFERSON AND HEMINGS HAD CHILDREN - I MADE THAT CLEAR IN MY PREVIOUS POST.

FALSE.

I NEVER denied that Hemings and Jefferson had children.

So, you did notice I mentioned Hemings and her children.

Let's try this again, shall we?

I'm going to re-post what I stated in the hope that you will read, comprehend and respond to what I actually wrote in a mature and substantive manner:

I'm genuinely interested in seeing your evidence that Jefferson and Hemmings' sexual relationship was non-consensual and/or violated the age of consent laws of the time. You don't need to post any content - a simple link will suffice.

 

RMPP

TIA

 

Here's more:

 

So is Bill Clinton. But you don't see anyone covering him with a shroud.

 

Just how many pre 1960 non-white men were in positions of power? Tough to criticize something that doesn't exist.

 

Racist? Rapist? Clinton was a dick and took advantage of his power position and was rightfully impeached for it, but a racist and a rapist? Not seeing that part. And his actions probably helped turn the tide against his wife in the elections.

 

There is no such thing as white culture.

 

I don't know if the Jefferson statue should be removed, but I think we all agree that certain people should not have statues or memorials right? Hypothetically if there was a statue of Hitler or Jerffrey Dahmer we would agree that it should come down. Therefore we need to look at the situation on a case by case basis and perhaps establish some standards for what sort of memorials and honorary monuments we should have and not have.

For example, I 100% agree that the confederate memorials should be taken from public spaces. Maybe you don't, but in this specific discussion of memorials and statues, at some point, if a large plurality or even large minority of people find something devastatingly offensive their views should be considered. You can dismiss their beliefs, but it doesn't mean your opinion is correct. These are monuments in public spaces. The organizations that control those spaces have the right and I would say obligation to be aware of public perception and react accordingly.

 

White Western Civilization provided you and the rest of humanity with most everything you use and enjoy on a daily basis........you should be more thankful and respectful

 

I do agree with this statement. UVA is a premier public university. There are plenty of opportunites associated with admission. Focus on those and leave the Jefferson statues alone.

 

LOL what the actual **** are you talking about? There is literally no such thing as white culture. Assuming you're also white, I seriously doubt we share the same culture.

Do you think white people from Ireland and Croatia share the same culture too? How about Germans and French people. They are next door neighbors and don't share the same culture. Here's one, how about a white person from Texas and a white person from Minnesota?

 

I agree that some offensive statues should be removed. Like you said, this has to be considered on a case by case basis. It is appropriate to have statues of Jefferson on a campus that he founded, however. His statues should stay.


".QUOTE="T_K_Richards, post: 1068951339, member: 72876"]I don't know if the Jefferson statue should be removed, but I think we all agree that certain people should not have statues or memorials right? Hypothetically if there was a statue of Hitler or Jerffrey Dahmer we would agree that it should come down. Therefore we need to look at the situation on a case by case basis and perhaps establish some standards for what sort of memorials and honorary monuments we should have and not have.

For example, I 100% agree that the confederate memorials should be taken from public spaces. Maybe you don't, but in this specific discussion of memorials and statues, at some point, if a large plurality or even large minority of people find something devastatingly offensive their views should be considered. You can dismiss their beliefs, but it doesn't mean your opinion is correct. These are monuments in public spaces. The organizations that control those spaces have the right and I would say obligation to be aware of public perception and react accordingly.[/QUOTE]

 

Isn't it black American history as well.

You don't care that he was a racist and rapist, because his victims were black.

You don't like the fact that blacks played a huge role in the building of this country as well.

It bothers your ilk that you can't change history to His-Story.

 

Have you ever been to Europe? Hitler's concentration camps are still standing. People visit them by the thousands. All across Europe, there are historical landmarks with checkered histories. Just as one obvious example, consider the Roman coliseum, a venue for spectacular blood-sport, where slaves and oppressed peoples were victimized by gruesome violence on an almost daily basis for centuries. Every statue of a Roman emperor in the world is a statue of a bloody dictator. History is full of insanity and violence. If we're going to try to sanitize it, then almost nothing will escape the unflinching gaze of political correctness.

 

As has already been explained several times, Jefferson was not a rapist. The evidence clearly indicates that Sally Hemmings chose to be with Jefferson.