Establishing a pretense to refuse to testify.

You adamantly ignore the obvious. An Investigation by the books is one based on a crime. There was/is no crime that triggered the Mueller investigation. And don't retort about the policeman checking out a phoned-in tip, because that is not an investigation, like Mueller's with his independence, couple of dozen lawyers, many more law enforcement investigators, two grand juries, lasting a year non-stop now -- all originated with no crime, and has yet to find a crime from his witch hunt. The Special Prosecutor's investigation is anything but by the book -- not even close.

 

Holy moly you keep making this ridiculous point. How does the evidence of a crime get uncovered without an investigation?

 

Except that none of the Trump supporters seem to actually be able post any positives that are actually true or that can honestly be ascribed to Trump other than perhaps the stock market which is being fueled by corporate buybacks and dividend increases thanks to the Trump tax cut and increased defecit spending.

 

There is a reason they are called Special Prosecutors.

 

Except that the claim that the only reason Mueller wants to interview Trump is to achieve a " perjury trap " is a fiction of the right wing Trump defenders. There is plenty of evidence of the Trump Campaign being involved with Russia not to mention a lot of interesting Trump and associate questionable Business dealings with Russia.

Even Trump won't go so far as to claim he has had no business dealings or loans from Russian Oligarchs with Ties to Putin.

 

You seem to have been reading just the opposite. Track the records of Hillary's state department run and the speech for bucks tour of Bill, and - wahla, you see a pattern. Unless of course, you are wearing blinders.

 

Really? Didn't you know you, all of our prisons are full of innocent people, just ask them...

 

Funny you should mention that, I've been trying to get Atwater to address a list of positives repeatedly, which for some reason he never seems to see when he reads the posts. Done the same with other posts dozens of times. Here's some for you:

CNN recently gave in (no doubt with excruciating pain) and agreed that Trump gets credit for the economy.
The black unemployment rate has reached an all time record low.
The number of jobs seeking people to fill them just topped 6 million.
The overall employment rate just has dropped to 3.9%.
The 68 year old Korean war is having the first breakthroughs ever, with a good possibility of denuclearization and reunification of the Koreas.

Now I realize you will credit all those to latent effect of president Grover Cleveland or something, so in your mind you can remain "right".
That doesn't change reality, CJ.

 

You see a pattern because the bread crumbs left by Faux instruct you to.

But the genius of the right wing narrative is a thing to behold. Now if follow-up investigations in to thus far debunked claims of pay for play also come up empty the accusation will be the investigation was corrupted. So it's a win-win for nutbags everywhere........you just chose what you want to believe regardless of evidence.

 

Sorry but yes all the economic claims are just continuations of the trend started in the Obama administration. If you are honest you will admit that. Or perhaps you can post one single chart showing otherwise.

And so far nothing has happened in Korea except meetings ehich have happened before. Giving Trump credit for something thst has not happened is a sure sign of desperation. Now when, and if, North Korea gives up it's nuclear weapons then you will have a good case.

 

divine intervention, silly.

 

Speaking of coming up empty- I keep asking you to face the facts about Trump accomplishments, and you keep missing them like the referrer as a pro wrestling show that never sees the low blows. Or perhaps- you can't stand the idea of admitting they are true.

Have you forgot? Shall I post them again for you?

 

Right, what was I thinking?

 

Wait.........are you suggesting something you wrote is true? What brought about that change? But yes, by all means post your list if it makes you feel better.

 

A good case? One no doubt you would still deny. The negotiations to date are already unprecedented successes that no previous administration came close to.
In giving Obama credit for Trump's market impact and accomplishments when the rocket launch took place immediately on Trumps' election- that's just about as logical at using Grover Cleveland as I suggested. Painful to deal with facts that make you look, shall we say- in error.

Time has a way of showing us who behaved wisely and who behaved stupidly. Obama will be remembered in history for one thing- being the first black president. Trump's legacy is far from written, but off to an amazing start. Most likely he will be known for some of the boldest and best achievements of any president, and all the BS, the Stormy Daniels crap and the like, will be irrelevant. Trump IS changing what we expect from government, demanding results instead of the lip service, band-aids patches on botched programs and day-to day corruption that we have settled for over several decades. Granted it's not pretty, but then draining a swamp and kicking out the alligators can't be. Takes a tough guy, a rough guy- not a baby-kisser.

Being on the wrong side, particularly in the face of factual events you should be able to understand, tends to come back to bite you. It's one thing to say you're not sure- another to commit yourself totally, the way all the media did during the campaign- which is still howling from their disaster. They made fools of themselves, and blame Trump for their creating their embarrassment- he didn't lose like he was supposed to, and they still haven't figured out how to man up and take responsibility for what they did. Maybe never will.

I don't think Trump cares one iota about all the wailing and moaning of the left. The man's self-confidence is beyond and above caring about that; he's on a mission- and, like it or not, things keep getting done. As they do, more people understand that despite the garbage barrage, his promises are being kept and progress is being made- and government will never be the same again, which is a damn good thing for all of us. Trumps' approval rating is growing steadily too. Despite all the assaults, more than half of Americans now accept that the Russian Collusion thing is a contrived political scam- a witch hunt, exactly at he said it was. It's happening, right before your eyes. America is on the move, growing again. If you choose not to participate, that's your problem.

 

Nope. When do your factual posts start?

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/agreedframework

 

Oh, you know, a teller calls in and says the bank was robbed, someone spots a dead body in the brush, the police see a person driving erratically and all over the road (and, to make a point, the police cannot pull over a driver just because they guess he might be drunk -- it's called reasonable suspicion or reasonable probability), an attempt or actual hacking into a system is discovered in a computer system, a tip is called in that it heard that company XYZ was dumping hazardous waste in the river, -- a myriad of ways. To expand the point, in the latter example an officer might call on XYZ company and ask a few questions; this is not an investigation. On the other hand Mueller would glom onto a dozen attorneys, recruit local police, state police and the FBI, sequester a grand jury or two, subpoena every officer, maintenance person, and truck driver, and question every other employee to put pressure on them to rat out others -- all because of that little phone call from Aunt Molly down the street who heard something.
A crime is investigated to find out how and when it happened and who the culprits might be -- that is the evidence -- not if it happened. The crime per se just happens, or it doesn't happen. If it doesn't, then it is not investigated, unless enforcement is looking for a guilty party without any crime.

 

There is a reason why Attorneys General are called Attorneys General, and why presidents are called presidents, and why teachers are called teachers. What's your point

 

To use your example, the FBI became aware of contacts between Drumpf campaign members (an Australian diplomat literally called it in to American counterparts) and Russians, and Russian interference in our elections. Hence the investigation in to whether anything happened that broke the law.

 

Returning to the "a crime must have been committed" argument.

Crimes are committed every day and go unreported for various reasons. One very good reason is that the parties to the crime have an interest in the crime being concealed. That's why white collar crime is difficult to deal with, it happens all the time but it benefits the parties so no-one is going to put their hand up and report it.

White collar crime such as money laundering is best dealt with by proactive investigation.

The authorities might form a suspicion based on data or other evidence that doesn't come from someone who has reported the crime.

They should then investigate to inquire if a crime has actually been committed. I see this investigation in much the same light.

There's the smoke, go look for the fire and if there's a fire then extinguish it.

The investigation must be allowed to run its course, just like any other white collar criminal investigation.

 

The argument that a crime must first have been committed before any investigation is ridiculous.

If events and circumstantial evidence creates suspicion of a crime being committed, then it would be criminally negligent not to investigate those events, people.

Say for instance if a president just happened to confess to obstruction of justice on national tv.

 

Why discuss facts with someone that doesn't grasp reality?
I think I've posted things for you to respond to repeatedly- in red text, three times, and you still say- Duh?

 

Or a person committed slander and defamation of character with the intent to harms someone's reputation on a public media, like a forum.

 

on a public opinion forum? nope not even remotely in the ball park. Interesting sense of proportion tho.

 

Nothing so convenient as being able to hold others responsible and give yourself unfettered liberty to abuse, is there?
When right and wrong become like a rubber band in people's minds, when the only thing that controls their behavior is the threat of prosecution- you do not have a population of responsible people. You have mob mentality that can't understand they are destroying their own world. There are many countries around the world right now where not only insult, but even dissent with government gets you thrown in prison. You live is a country where protest is legal- but that doesn't mean that any kind of trash you can think of throwing out is righteous. IF you want your idea to get fair consideration- present fair ideas, rather than indulge in hate language. Your own self-respect, if it exists, is at risk when one fails to regulate themselves.