Why do so many people blindly believe the US claims that Russia hacked the election?

Quit trying to divert.

You post two Russian news media videos featuring this guy, whoever he is, claiming that Putin is right, and the entire US intel community is wrong, and the Russians never interfered in the election (despite all the RT articles reposted here during the election), and he's not an RT guy?

If it walks like a duck.

 

This is not the intel community following the administration's line.

 

I am not deflecting. You are. Notice how you say 'whoever he' is but don't want to say that he is not an RT guy and is a former high placed NSA official with over 30 years of experience. Fact of the matter is RT is the only network which will give him a voice to express his conclusions, as the sheep in the US media and are all propagating this McCarthyism hysteria, as it aids their bottom line.

Any word on these videos fellow?







No, no word because you are blinded by this hysteria.

 

I believe that this is one of the reasons our nation is not functioning well. Factoid - in 2013 it became legal for out intelligence community to create and disseminate propaganda on US citizens.

Now aside from the Orwellian comparison "Ministry of Truth was where State Propaganda was produced" - how does this not completely subvert/harm our democratic process ? ... in a way that is far more severe than anything Putin could accomplish in his wildest authoritarian fantasy ?

Perhaps your 60-70% rating is a function of not doing enough research.

These are 5 "whistleblowers" who tried to go through proper channels

https://www.rt.com/usa/313662-whistleblowers-sue-doj-fbi-nsa/

We now go after those that would out criminality in Gov't in this country while those in Gov't that commit these crimes go free.

The media is complicit in spreading State Propaganda - both left and right. The Establishment international financiers control/influence the agenda of the elite Establishment bureaucrats and politicians. These financiers own the MSM by en large.

How is this ability to mess with our electoral process (by foreign actors) remotely comparable to the facebook ads - which were actually true and not propaganda.

https://alethonews.com/2018/04/23/msnbc-where-journalism-goes-to-die/

How is this not harmful to our electoral process (never mind what the DNC/Hillary campaign did to Sanders) on the highest order.

Why are the members of the Board of Directors of MSNBC (foreign actors) not being brought up on charges of election improprieties ?

Obsessing over Putin in relation to "election meddling" is the equivalent of obsessing over a raindrop in a hurricane.

 

Taxpayers money well spent.
Lol.

 

It is not reasonable, given the consequential nature of this madness. It could all be a ruse, just as the CIA operation that JFK killed, was a ruse. Those who forget history are bound to repeat it.

So much hyperbole has been injected into the meddling as to be suspect. Any reasonable inquiring mind sees that right off the bat, going back to when this first arose in 2016.

How far are the "willing" agreeable to go on accusations lacking evidence? Would you agree with your gov't that we should destroy russia with nukes, without a shred of evidence presented that proved they were gonna do it first to us? If your own life and the lives of all americans were at risk? Where would you set your bar for requiring evidence?

When JFK and the USSR were in great danger of MAD, from russian missiles in cuba, aimed at the US, he provided evidence using classified info. With the current atmosphere of partisanship he would have been crucified for doing that. And for having a direct hotline to the Kremlin. But we have responsible leaders back then, and have had them until hillary lost an election she could not lose. Except she did, and no one has said, with evidence, that russian meddling elected trump over clinton. She even got more popular votes, 3 million, as her supporters remind us here.

We have had intel heads lie under oath to congress. In fact, some of the same ones who call trump's meeting with putin as treason. But treason applies to actions helping a nation we are in a war with, a declared war, so it was dishonesty again on behalf of a prior intel head. There are a myriad of reasons not to trust intel, when they refuse to present evidence and hide behind the secrecy ruse. Too convenient.

Perhaps you should convince me, rationally and reasonably why I should trust my own gov't and its intel, given what we know from the history of both? I know you cannot rationally do that though. So what must you then employ in order to try to convince me? Well, the same kind of tactics you are using right now. But they do not fly, nor are they acceptable to serious, non partisans, and people who live in this reality in which we find ourselves.

 

Demonization of the messenger in an attempt to avoid the content of the message is not an argument for anything.

Where is the proof for your claim that this guy is a "russophile"

Your claim that all he offers is that parts of the report are "unorthodox" is abject nonsense and proves only your lack of reading comprehension ability.

The report itself clearly outlines how the claim that there was some overwhelming consensus is bogus nonsense.

1) how are 3 intelligence agencies out of 17 - and "the whole intelligence community" the same ?
2) even the claim that these 3 had some consensus is misleading
3) The guy that hand picked the analysts "James Clapper" is a proven liar. The guy was caught lying to congress.

If this does not set off BS alarm bells... then you have none.

 

What tactics am I using?

 

If my government is telling me something, I’ll give it a 50/50.

50% Chance they are lying to me.
50% Chance they are not telling me the truth.

 

I've never seen gravity or radio waves so I don't believe them. I've never seen a photon of light either, it's just a capitalist plot to sell LED's. This person is obviously a troll that came out of nowhere.

 

I think that's reasonable. But US intel has a bad track record.

 

So........you believe there is a massive conspiracy involving the entire intel community to lie to the American public about who is responsible for hacking the DNC, disseminating false info on social media, stealing the Clinton campaign's voter analytics, and providing Wikileaks with stolen information?

 

I don't put it behind the intel community.

 

I grew up under threat of the bomb. As a Cold War vet I trained to kill Russians. Now Facebook and twitter are going to get me in my sleep.

And Putin, if he wanted into the DNC server his arsenal is spear pfishing? Really? That is how he does it?

I’m over believing Russia is the boogie man. I would rather have a beer with them.

 

Looks to me you are stating fact without evidence to warrant it. Am I wrong? I respond to so many like yourself that I may have you confused with someone else. If ,so, never mind.

I just have a great problem with those that state what they see as facts, without the evidence, the verifiable facts to back up the supposition.

I am only concerned with facts, at the end of the day. Regardless of what those facts are. Not like I defend trump because I voted for him. I didn't. I sensed politics being involved from the get-go, just from the experience that 76 years of life brings to the table. And anytime partisan politics are involved, you can forget honesty being used by those with a partisan agenda. Same with hatred, whether it be obama or trump. I saw the same kind of BS coming from the obama haters for 8 years. Obama did things I do not agree with, even if I did vote for him the first time. But some of the crap thrown at him was BS, driven by partisanship and hatred. Well, I see the same thing now, but it is so much worse, given it is irresponsible to want to be as we now are in regards to russia, who can end this nation in a few minutes as we can end their nation in a few minutes. They were once a much greater adversary, with the communist revolution than today and yet you would not think that listening to the haters of trump, the partisans and the neocons. This affliction has caused us to lose our minds and become as irresponsible we have ever been towards the old ussr or now, russia. Several past gov't officials have said this, but MSM seldom gives them voice.

 

Not sure, but when they use "Pas$word" for their password it's like throwing cornbread to catfish and then asking them not to eat.

Real bunch of dumb askes for it.

It's time to bring a couple of servers into evidence.

 

It is not "US claims" that Russia hacked the election, it is Democrat claims that Russia hacked the election. The reason they made that claim and the reason the Left believes it is that they had a mental breakdown when Hillary lost and had to come up with some excuse other than Hillary was a hideous candidate and they couldn't own up to the fact that they made a HUGE mistake.

 

Well, where have you been ,did you not see the indictments or read them from last week---you can't claim "no proof" any longer, unless "of course" you don't read them, then your ignorance is showing---just saying ------you can google the 29 sheet indictment you know---
No,the clause from the Constitution I have given you doesn't show proof of Russian hacking, the indictments do that---it shows proof that trump is a traitor----So, no amount of you trying to defend or change the subject will work----wake up---
OMG,just now trump is on the news "retracting" some of his statements he made when standing next to Putin---Sorry,you don't get any do-overs on this one you Fu####ing moron--how about thinking before you speak, it is not difficult to defend the United States--you made your decision--now get the F##k out---

 

Indictments are not proof. There needs to be evidence, data that Russia was responsible. US can gather Russian intel officials names put it on a piece of paper and say Russia did it, but that still doesn't provide the American public proof that Russia was responsible for the 'hack' of the DNC.

 

So you're going to tell me the FBI Nancy Pelosi and all these other scumbags that have been in office for a decade or more are not the establishment?

 

I don't know what it is, but all that I need is hard, verfiable evidence, which the NSA can present, if it exists. That it has never been presented to back up what intel says, and given the fact that intel has lied to the People and congress, historically, that must be given relevance. This is just using rationality and history, and insuring it has context here. You choose to ignore it, but all of us cannot do that. We were apparently schooled differently when we receive an education.

I accept that russians used social media to try to introduce disorder. If they had not also organized an anti trump rally post election, I would not mention the "disorder". But this meddling is not new, but has gone on for decades. It only became important because hillary lost. And it became politically charged in 2016, and that has only increased. This can be observed and verified.

Of course russia would deny doing it, just as we deny our own meddling, unless you do it overty as obama did in regards to israeli elections. So the meddling is old hat, and has gone on for decades. And unless they hack into our voting machines and change votes, I see it as "normal" and many nations indulge in it. Again, needed context which you seem to have no use for, and for obvious reasons.

I will accept that russia was the source for wilkileaks when the NSA presents us with the hard data, evidence, and which they have the ability to do. Until that time, I have to give some credence to what Craig Murray said, and was then blacked out so he could not repeat it, as the russian hysterial was being built upon. To our knowledge no one has investigated his claims of an insider, and his contention it was not a russian. So, it is possible that an insider was the source for assange, as it is possible and even likely that russian hackers also got the DNC emails. But the source for wilkileaks, since they refuse to listen to assange, and refuse to investigate that aspect looking fishy. Looks like something an agenda driven agency might do, in order to promote an insider agenda within agencies. Given the history of intel, this is not impossible, but possible.

Looking into other claims has not been done, to our knowledge. And that is troublesome. Why not investigate that? Get murray in, get assange in, if the truth is important. But as long as we see more of the same old sh*t, ignoring other claims, and then being short on hard evidence, presented, it is not unreasonable to leave option open.

The NSA would have hard evidence, on the transfer of packets, when it happened, and who received them. As well as when wilileaks received them and from what location. Don't underestimate the NSA. Present this evidence, and it isn't like americans do not know what the NSA does. And their abilities. And yet we have seen none of this.

Does a major intel only use phishing to get into computer networks? We know non gov't hackers do, but someone like the US or russia? We also know that we can make it look like russia did a hack, when it was us. Or other nations can frame another nation. We are at the point where it is hard to tell who did what, and you should know this. To exclaim certainly on such issues, is suspect, and those who might believe it, rather ignorant of where we are in cyber warfare.

 

That's a coy way of avoiding the question. Yes or no, you believe a disgruntled, retired intel employee without access to the detailed evidence the intel agencies have, over their assessment, and the evidence presented in Mueller's indictment?

Sounds like yes from what you've written. And you wonder why we call the Cult of Denial conspiracy theorists?

 

This is exactly right. Great analysis.

 

Do you think they're going to send it to you personally?

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

https://www.justice.gov/file/1080281/download

 

Nobody knows who it is. All I am saying is that the US intel agencies have a well known history of lying, lying straight to the American peoples faces about WMD'S, wiretapping, data collection, numerous wars, and the list goes on. They have a clear agenda of keeping the establishment in power and achieving global US dominance. Notice how you call a retired employee, like he's some nobody, which he is not. He is a man with over 30 years of experience in the NSA as a high ranking official. He is very intelligent and you should not dismiss his analysis. The lesson to learn here is to be skeptical of the US intelligence agencies. They record you, me, your friend Bob all the time, and many times have lied to you.