Alabama’s Draconian Abortion Ban Has Women On Twitter Ready To Fight

FoxHastings said: ↑
Why shouldn't women be in prison if they have an illegal abortion?

Isn't that breaking the law?

Anti-Choicers call abortion murder....shouldn't women who "murder" fetuses be jailed and executed???

We have a law , this law says if a person hires another person to kill someone and they do , they BOTH are charged with murder.

Now , to make abortion illegal Anti-Choicers want to call it murder because they claim it's a "person" being murdered..

BUT they want to appear as the "good guys" by claiming they really don't want to punish the person who "hired the hitman" just the hitman.

Why? Don't they really believe it's murder? Or don't they believe in the laws of this country?


Have any convicted murderers been forced to take birth control or any other drug or had foreign objects forced into their bodies? Have convicted murders been castrated?

Had forced "education" ?

 

Because you only mentioned the woman being jailed.

 

Why shouldn't women be in prison if they have an illegal abortion?

Isn't that breaking the law?

Anti-Choicers call abortion murder....shouldn't women who "murder" fetuses be jailed and executed???

DUH, because that's what I was discussing.

I was tryng to balance out the dishonest rhetoric from the right that tries to get ONLY doctors charged with the "crime" of abortion.


SEE, I answered YOUR question but you couldn't answer mine

 

Doctors have a sworn duty to protect life, so if they allow a woman to die then they are finished as a doctor. You would have a point if you said that abortion doctors will leave the profession and nobody will take up the profession in the future leading to its extinction.

 

***************

 

Yes, because they are the ones who terminate the life. Why would a woman be charged with murder?

What question?

 

If they perform an illegal abortion they may get caught and be finished as a doctor..

.


People who can perform abortions have never "gone extinct, and never will

 

Who are you directing these asterisk filled posts to?

 

From my post above your question (try reading) ;

We have a law , this law says if a person hires another person to kill someone and they do , they BOTH are charged with murder.

Now , to make abortion illegal Anti-Choicers want to call it murder because they claim it's a "person" being murdered..

BUT they want to appear as the "good guys" by claiming they really don't want to punish the person who "hired the hitman" just the hitman.

Why? Don't they really believe it's murder? Or don't they believe in the laws of this country?

Goodgawd,...the questions in the post of mine you quoted when you first asked your inane question!


Why shouldn't women be in prison if they have an illegal abortion?

Isn't that breaking the law?

Anti-Choicers call abortion murder....shouldn't women who "murder" fetuses be jailed and executed???

 

WOW! Good Question!

They're directed to other asterisks !!!


There, ya satisfied!! You got the answer you deserve

 

Bullshit, no doctor will ever get into trouble for refusing to do an abortion, even if the woman is seriously ill he is within his professional rights to refer her to someone else and it's not HIS fault if she dies in the meantime. This law will KILL women if it is ever enforced, not a few cells in a womb, actual walking, talking, thinking and voting people.

How any woman can ever vote Republican is beyond me. They make it so very obvious that they view women as baby machines and little else.

 

Repeating the claim is not proof of claim. Saying "A "zygote is a human" because a "zygote is a human" - does not prove this claim true.

Finding a textbook (one that happened to be outside the subject matter domain) which repeats your claim "A zygote is a human" does not prove this claim is true - unless the textbook actually proves this claim - and nothing in the quote from the textbook you provided proved your claim.

What proves a claim true is providing explanation for why that claim is true - and your textbook does not do this.

The fact of the matter is I have previously cited and given you links to a Developmental Biology textbook - which outlined the 5 different scientific perspectives on when human life begins - Metabolic, Genetic, Embryological, Neurological, Ecological - 4 of which deny the claim that live begins at conception.

Rather than address these claims - like addressed your claims - you completely ignored them. Sorry to burst your bubble but this is not academic rigor - and the Embryology Textbook you cited - which also ignores these well known alternate perspectives = not academic rigor.
The status of the zygote is highly contentious and highly debated - for some author to then state defacto "its a human" without even bothering to address the counter claims - never mind refuting these claims which is required to claim something is true - is a joke from an academic perspective.

This is "appeal to authority" fallacy on steroids coupled with you ignoring actual experts who give rational for their claims.

 

That was supposed to refute what how?

 

I can't speak for others.

 

"And no. That baby is not the women's body."

Proving you don't know what you are talking about.

"OH my gosh my gums are bleeding KILL THE BABY!!!"

 

Uh no, and "Alabama's bill would punish a doctor or abortion provider who performs a procedure with a Class A felony – punishable by life or 10 to 99 years in prison. Attempting to perform an abortion would be a Class C felony, punishable by one to 10 years in prison. The woman seeking an abortion would not face charges under the bill."

So can we lower the tone?

 

Why are so scared to have a poorly written law that went beyond the scope of the SCOTUS reviewed. Even Justice Ginsberg has said RvW was not a good decision.

“ Roe, I believe, would have been more acceptable as a judicial decision if it had not gone beyond a ruling on the extreme statute before the court. … Heavy-handed judicial intervention was difficult to justify and appears to have provoked, not resolved, conflict.”
North Carolina Law Review, 1985

 

Oh goodness gracious. How easy your fweeings get hurt. I am using something i picked up when reading a book. Democrats always carry the racist card in their back pocket and at times in their purse.

 

His sperm is separate from him.

 

Is it like that? Codifying in law, a law designed to end this abortion discussion is like school integration? Well when 12 year olds get aborted and race is the determining issue, perhaps. I never gave that any thought. I sent my proposal to Trey Gowdy for a legal analysis.

 

Doctors face being sued when patients die who are healthy otherwise. Did you actually read the law under discussion?

 

Democrats have have ample number of years to codify abortion into federal law. I do not recall them doing that.

 

I am used to having any post described as racist upon saying the word black.

I am puzzled though as to why posters saying white are not branded racists?

 

We supported Roe v Wade and Republicans opposed it. It's not Dems who are passing unconstitutional laws that would compel little girls raped by relatives to have the rapist's children. What will you do next? Give rapists visitation rights? I find it not surprising that one of the States passing these oppressive laws is Utah. Utah is run by Mormons and it seems they might want to revive the practice of kidnapping wives that once made Deseret such a hated area.

 

You have been given the proof and the science and the medicine and the cites, you have refutted nothing and offered nothing in rebuttal but your uninformed lacking in any scientific knowledge opinion. But of course that is exactly what the pro-abortion side must do, dehumanize the life in the womb and then ignore the science. The status of the zygote, the first stage of that new unique human life is not highly contentious or highly debated except by those trying to justify killing that human life before it is born. It IS human, it is NEVER any other genus/species or other form of life. Here several more for your reading enjoyment.

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and M?ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/ar...yoquotes2.html

"Recently, Dr. Robert George wrote an article outlining this whole topic in more detail. And if you want to really learn your stuff, pick up his excellent book entitled Embryo (I’m in the middle of reading it right now).

In his words:
“That is, in human reproduction, when sperm joins ovum, these two individual cells cease to be, and their union generates a new and distinct organism. This organism is a whole, though in the beginning developmentally immature, member of the human species. Readers need not take our word for this: They can consult any of the standard human-embryology texts, such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology.” – Dr. Robert George

“Human embryos, whether they are formed by fertilization (natural or in vitro) or by successful somatic-cell nuclear transfer (SCNT — i.e., cloning), do have the internal resources and active disposition to develop themselves to the mature stage of a human organism, requiring only a suitable environment and nutrition. In fact, scientists distinguish embryos from other cells or clusters of cells precisely by their self-directed, integral functioning — their organismal behavior. Thus, human embryos are what the embryology textbooks say they are, namely, human organisms — living individuals of the human species — at the earliest developmental stage.” – Dr. Robert George
- See more at: http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/....n2q46hNU.dpuf

A New, Distinct Human Organism Comes into Being at Fertilization

It is undisputed that a new, distinct human organism comes into existence during the process of fertilization.[1] Scientific literature states the following:

• “The fusion of sperm and egg membranes initiates the life of a sexually reproducing organism.”[2]

• “The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg.”[3]

• “Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”[4]

• “The oviduct or Fallopian tube is the anatomical region where every new life begins in mammalian species. After a long journey, the spermatozoa meet the oocyte in the specific site of the oviduct named ampulla, and fertilization takes place.”[5]

• “Fertilization – the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism – is the culmination of a multitude of intricately regulated cellular processes.”[6]

The government’s own definition attests to the fact that life begins at fertilization. According to the National Institutes of Health, “fertilization” is the process of union of two gametes (i.e., ovum and sperm) “whereby the somatic chromosome number is restored and the development of a new individual is initiated.”[7] Thus, in the context of human life, a new individual human organism is initiated at the union of ovum and sperm. One textbook similarly explains: Human development begins at fertilization when a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoon) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to produce a single cell – a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.[8]

Thus, a new human organism is created before the developing embryo implants in the uterus – i.e., before that time at which some people consider a woman “pregnant.”

[1] See, e.g., Condic, When Does Human Life Begin? A Scientific Perspective (The Westchester Institute for Ethics & the Human Person Oct. 200, http://bdfund.org/wordpress/wpconten...ife_print.pdf; George & Tollefsen, EMBRYO 39 (200.

[2] Marsden et al., Model systems for membrane fusion, CHEM. SOC. REV. 40(3):1572 (Mar. 2011) (emphasis added).

[3] Okada et al., A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation, NATURE 463:554 (Jan. 28, 2010) (emphasis added).

[4] Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012) (emphasis added).

[5] Coy et al., Roles of the oviduct in mammalian fertilization, REPRODUCTION 144(6):649 (Oct. 1, 2012) (emphasis added).

[6] Marcello et al., Fertilization, ADV. EXP. BIOL. 757:321 (2013) (emphasis added).

[7] National Institutes of Health, Medline Plus Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary (2013), http://www.merriamwebster.com/medlineplus/fertilization (emphasis added).

Now prove it is some other form of life that begins with human conception.