Ask your difficult questions of an Atheist.

Mating with a cactus or adherence to law have nothing to do with being Atheist so continuously focusing on it and expanding rather that dealing with the thread intent is trolling for attention.

 

That was not at all what I did and you are darn aware of that. Stop the purposeful misrepresentation of my views, please.

 

In that post of yours you were referring to a law that someone else on this board reported.

I said I don't know the full details of the law and thus couldn't answer your question.

 

You keep claiming punishment, but haven't shown there is any intent to punish.

I do see a difference between accidental pregnancy (failed prophylaxis) and rape in terms of harm to the woman.

So, I'm not surprised that laws against abortion have sometimes held rape and incest as special cases.

 

OK. I certainly agree with the consequences here. I would add that 9 months of gestating a rape fetus is a constant graphic reminder of a horrific attack as well as the cooption of her life as she works to bring into being the progeny of her rapist.

However, I don't believe those who write these laws are trying for punishment. I think they are seeing the embryo as being of overriding value.

 

My understanding is that Hinduism does not hold that there is a god and would thus qualify as atheist.

Scientology qualifies as a religion, I think, and it doesn't specify a god.

I think there are new age religious beliefs that don't include a living separate entity that would qualify as a god.

I think atheism is the opposite of theism, not religion.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
So you know every woman and every detail of their lives...really?

But let's hit the crux....you state right there that women who have consensual sex should be punished by having their rights taken away and be forced to gestate.

But an "innocent" woman who was raped didn't enjoy the sex so she shouldn't be punished with a forced abortion.

But I bet you still won't see it even when it is so blatant...


You: ""The difference is in the health and wellbeing of the victim of the assault.""

….and screw the health and well being of women who committed the heinous crime of enjoying sex....


Maybe you want them to wear a scarlet letter A on their chests...be put in the stocks and pelted with tomatoes, dunked in a pond to see if they drown?? ….anything else??

Obviously you don't see it even when it was explained about three times.

It almost seems like you're denying anyone is trying to pass, and are passing laws, against abortion...you can't seem to associate crime with punishment...

You say: ""I do see a difference between accidental pregnancy (failed prophylaxis) and rape in terms of harm to the woman.""


Which is quite strange....maybe you could explain how a pregnancy due to rape harms a woman more than a pregnancy from consensual sex????

I think that 's what you're trying to say, I'm not sure ........and have NO idea how it would relate to anything I posted.

 

The punishment for abortion in at least one of the states creating new law against abortion is a charge of murder against the doctor.

THAT is the punishment.

If there were to be punishment against the woman, it would come in the form of some charge against the woman - murder, or whatever, which would carry a penalty.

Post #906 among others.

 

And I'm saying that is WRONG.

IF a person hires anothet person to commit murder thern BOTH are charged.

Try it if you don't believe me...hire someone to kill someone else and tell the judge YOU didn't actually do the actual murder , you ONLY hired someone else to todo it and it WILL be Happy Jail time to YOU ….after the judge and jury stop laughing …


Now , the next issue of "punishment", a different issue from that one.

IF a law is passed banning abortion allegedly because abortion is murder...are you following so far, one step at a time.???

Then abortion is murder.

It can't be NOT murder, or UN- murder or KINDA murder, because the woman was impregnated due to rape.

When people want exceptions made for rape that means they ONLY want women who had consensual sex to be punished for having an abortion.

Which says CLEARLY that they ONLY want women punished because they had consensual sex.



Read this slowly , an abortion due to rape is the exact same procedure and outcome as an abortion due to consensual sex....

The ONLY difference is the conception.

So it is CLEAR that some Anti-Choicers want women who had consensual sex punished for having consensual sex.


Remember, they cannot claim that abortion due to rape is any different than an abortion due to consensual sex.

And if abortion is murder then HIRING someone to do it for you is a CRIME.

 

Please note that the above doesn't indicate any justification for your idea of "punishment" as motivating opposition to abortion.

Abortion following rape does have more justification in the minds of many. Rape and incest often invove serious and lasting trauma that is specific to that kind of criminal assault You know this if you look at our laws and at the discussions surrounding designing them. People DO see rape and incest as a factor in whether an abortion should be allowed - including as an exception.

One of the significant comments about the state law recently enacted specifically calls out that there is no exception for rape or incest. That was significant news.

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
And I'm saying that is WRONG.

IF a person hires anothet person to commit murder thern BOTH are charged.

Try it if you don't believe me...hire someone to kill someone else and tell the judge YOU didn't actually do the actual murder , you ONLY hired someone else to todo it and it WILL be Happy Jail time to YOU ….after the judge and jury stop laughing …


Now , the next issue of "punishment", a different issue from that one.

IF a law is passed banning abortion allegedly because abortion is murder...are you following so far, one step at a time.???

Then abortion is murder.

It can't be NOT murder, or UN- murder or KINDA murder, because the woman was impregnated due to rape.

When people want exceptions made for rape that means they ONLY want women who had consensual sex to be punished for having an abortion.
Which says CLEARLY that they ONLY want women punished because they had consensual sex.

Read this slowly , an abortion due to rape is the exact same procedure and outcome as an abortion due to consensual sex....

The ONLY difference is the conception.

So it is CLEAR that some Anti-Choicers want women who had consensual sex punished for having consensual sex.


Remember, they cannot claim that abortion due to rape is any different than an abortion due to consensual sex.

And if abortion is murder then HIRING someone to do it for you is a CRIME.

Please note: It does.

Why would a law be passed that had NO intention of punishing the perpetrator?

Why make something against the law if it's not going to be enforced? What a ridiculous notion and waste of taxpayer's money.

Why do you keep repeating that? I know and you know it...repeating things certainly doesn't move the discussion along and proves nothing.

I am saying that people who do see it as an exception for rape are hypocrites.

One cannot say "all life is precious and abortion is murder" and then make an exception for murder....that is logic and common sense...

And some laws do make exceptions. ….that has nothing to do with our discussion about the hypocrisy or the FACT that murder is murder..


Care to address my post after actually reading them?


"""Read this slowly , an abortion due to rape is the exact same procedure and outcome as an abortion due to consensual sex....

The ONLY difference is the conception.

So it is CLEAR that some Anti-Choicers want women who had consensual sex punished for having consensual sex.


Remember, they cannot claim that abortion due to rape is any different than an abortion due to consensual sex.

And if abortion is murder then HIRING someone to do it for you is a CRIME."""""


Now can you state what you disagree with?


Do you deny that pregnancy due to consensual sex can cause ""serious and lasting trauma"" .

Do you deny that forcing women to gestate , you know , using FORCE like a rapist uses, can cause "serious and lasting trauma".?

 

They all believe in the supernatural ..part all religions
Hindus believe in a god called Brahman..and Scientology believes in god
https://www.scientology.org/faq/scientology-beliefs/what-is-the-concept-of-god-in-scientology.html

 

Are you suggesting that if one agrees there is a supernatural then one is religious?

I think thre are more elements than that in the definition of religion.

 

If one worships the supernatural s/he is practicing religion

 

Our laws are a negotiated settlement. It isn't the case that one side or the other gets exactly what they want.

It would be shocking if any of our laws on abortion accurately represented a majority view of either side.

I pointed to the law only to show that there exist people who are ready to make exeptions for rape and incest.

Remember that those opposed to abortion have spent a LOT of effort in simply making abortions hard to obtain. Charging the doctor with murder would be one such step. I don't know what the laws say about the woman who seaches out that doctor - whether there is an infraction, whether there are penalties, etc.

Anyone really needs to understand the opposing views. NOT being able to state positions other than my own would be a big fat red flag.

Again, you've pointed out that gestation and childbirth are what happens when a woman gets pregnant. But, you have NOT shown that anyone is considering that a punishment.

 

OK - I'll agree wth that, as it includes worship.

But, if we are told that someone is an atheist, we don't know whether they "worship" anything. In general, we don't know how they go about making the decisions that a Christian might see as requiring the consultation of their religion.

All we know is that they don't accept the idea that there is a god or gods.

 

OK. I'll accept that.

I question the idea that simply believing there is a supernatural makes one religious.

But, it doesn't really affect the question of whether not accepting the existence of a god makes one religious.

 

So God as a 'urge' is acceptable to you, interesting.

"The Eighth Dynamic is the urge"

It can, but not necessarily

Its a religious position, just like nonacceptance

 

No, let’s make it more complicated -- -- -- -- --

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2243048902613436

 

The world population is currently at 7.7 BILLION!

Exactly how much "value" does any individual living person have already?

Each additional embryo further diminishes the "value" of the other 7.7 billion people.

We have scientific data that establishes that when a species overpopulates it becomes a threat to both itself and other species.

https://www.salon.com/2013/11/09/11_species_we_should_hunt_more_often_partner/

Worth noting that those who get all emotional over an embryo reject science!

 

There are over 30 million Hindu gods so it is probably OVERQUALIFIED as a religion.

Scientology is a cult that believes that everyone is an "immortal spirit" which is essentially saying that everyone has the attributes of "gods".

 

Tom Cruise is a God? ERK !

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that Tom Cruise believes that he is a god in his own mind!

Reality probably has a vastly differing opinion on that matter.

 

So does his ex wife.