We have a responsibility on this Forum to do our part, however small, to stop White Supremacists

Separating environmental factors from genetic predisposition seems like a difficult problem to me. Some of the research into feral children might be a place to start.

 

This is a good thread. Please resist the temptation to dismiss participants with a personal shot. Let's keep this discussion going.

 

You might have posted linked evidence to make it more than your own beliefs and opinions.

 

A right wing twit that confuses the left with fascism.

 

Times change. The world isn't, pardon the pun black and white anymore.

 

It's very difficult. When I get more time, I'm going to post an annotated reading list somewhere in this forum on the issue.

It's one I'm very interested in, since I am an 'ameliorist' -- one who thinks we can better the condition of the human species by conscious action, like providing good schools. So I'm constitutionally unhappy with research that shows that there may be a limit to this. However, we have to seek out disconfirming evidence for our views, not confirming evidence.

And in any case, I am sure that in another generation or two, we'll be choosing the genomes of our descendants, and if there is a genetic component to intelligence, the alleles of those genes we'll choose will be the higher-IQ-making ones. But even at the level of genes, it's much more complicated than the 'dominant/recessive' stuff they taught in high school: just Google 'epigenetics' to see that -- it turns out Lamarck wasn't entirely wrong after all!.

 

That's what happens when you spend a lifetime under the delusion that everything will always go your way and the world will always stay the exact same. They're angry because the right way isn't solely "the white way" anymore.

 

No, the whole point of this thread was to use the actions of one deranged man, whose motives are yet to be fully determined, to assign guilt by association to anyone who happens to be "white" or conservative. If the OP were honest, even he would agree with me.

It gets repeated over-and-over again every time there is a mass shooting. Who did it, and how can we assign guilt to those who might be of a similar race or political view as the shooter. No one exploits such sordid opportunities more than the liberal left. Yet, if someone from the left had done the shooting, what would be the response from the liberals on this forum? Would it be "it is our duty to stop liberal supremacists"? I don't think so.

 

An idea or set of ideas may be wrong, may be immoral, may be unjust, and may be downright pure evil, but that's an opportunity for better ideas, not a license to kill.

 

This isn't GBA, this is calling out white supremacy because that was the direct catalyst for the El Paso shooting and his manifesto was already shown to be anti-Hispanic, that should've been obvious from the jump. His motives were clear, no need to make excuses for him.

 

No, I made it clear I didn't even read them. Your reaction to a simple point, that white supremacists aren't interested in the evidence and instead abuse it, ultimately ensured your irrelevance.

 

I referred to the data directly, rather than dodgy secondary source like you. However, for support of what I said try: Silva et al. (2019 Addressing the Myths of Terrorism in America. International Criminal Justice Review. https://doi.org/10.1177/1057567719833139)

 

Whenever a powerful government starts selecting and targeting a population for any reason the impact can be very significant. The New World slave trade targeted by race and then selectively eliminated rebels - those who persisted in independent thought and action.
I suspect that the impact on tested IQ would have been immediate and persistent.

Nevertheless, the ability of slaves to maintain some capacity for independent action, managing small subsistence agricultural, resisting oppressive work requirements to gain incentives and eventually engaging in effective open rebellion is encouraging.
Their resilience should give us all hope in the age of totalitarianism.

If we could compare tested IQ before and after a century of slavery and then after the Civil War and a century after the Wilson Administration we would have enough data to make some good guesses about the impact of genes vs. environment.

My underinformed guess would be that the IQ of any population would increase to the human norm rather quickly once the environmental inhibitors are removed.

 

Wiki has a list of "terrorist" incidents in the US -- although the definition of "terrorism" is always problematic: when the Klan tried to bomb the home of an outspoken advocate of equal rights for Blacks, that was not really the same thing as when a white mob lynched a Black teenager for whistling at a white woman.

If you look at that list, you'll see plenty of blame to go around for everyone. Any political trend you don't like will be represented there. What's striking, to me, is how many of the terrorists don't even attempt to evade the police, and how many of them attempt it, but get caught. The latter are probably pretty stupid people. Your really dangerous terrorists are intelligent, middle class people -- like this fellow, who was a member of a Far Left group that evaded the police for ten years.

 

And that delusion has been lifted and white people are fighting back. They observe that the racists were warning about this for decades and the liberals were denying it for the same length of time.

Who are they going to side with to protect their white privilege?

 

Ha!!! You're afraid to answer!!!

 

I do not think there are many who actually believe in an inherent white supremacy, but those that do are not likely to be persuaded by evidence and argument unless it is very persuasive. Once hard core beliefs are established they are hard to change.

 

Nor am I interested in churlishness. I had a simple point; a point you should understand given an evidence-based approach amongst the far right is a rare beast. You pretended it was more complex, using that to go for inane attack followed by ramble. I could guess why you did that, but I won't bother.

 

The MSM is hiding much of the known truth about both shooters. Perceived short term political expediency is the mother of Fake News.

 

I can not speak as to what is the motivation of the OP, but based on just his post alone, I don't think he was trying to portray all white Christian conservatives as murdering madmen. However, having partially read the Manifesto, having listened on YouTube to Dr. Yaron Brook's analysis of the El Paso slaughter, I find it somewhat puzzling the OP mentioned nothing about the shooter's Progressive leaning. My judgment is that he is a Progressive nationalist who supports Republicans because he thinks this will slow immigration so that the nation can afford the delusions of the Left. This man is the very spirit of today's political culture, No welfare, except for me and mine. Loot is loot, citizens, no matter how it is gotten.

 

To what extent though are you underestimating the problem? The amount of racism on this forum has, in my opinion, gone through the roof. I also have received numerous attacks by right wingers recently for referring to the objective data: right wing terrorism is on an upward trend. To what extent are white supremacists tolerated (and their attitudes embedded) within more mainstream right wing thought?

 

She knows. She pretends not to know. Warren is vert good at that sort of thing.

 

Most people have learned to be suspicious of data while Fake Science is so common.

The most recent shooters are described as right wing even though the evidence suggests that they are well aligned with much of the left wings key issues.

 

Could you please quote the actual words that made you believe the shooter was expressing "anti-Hispanic" or "white supremacy" motives.

 

YOU are one of the problems. You and your cronies keep trying to make a tie between white supremecists and being on the right

Being on the right means:
Lower taxes
smaller government
Strong, secure border (doesn't matter what kind of people are trying to toss it ILLEGALLY)
strong military
Good values (you know, like not using abortions ad your main birth control method)

NONE of this stuff has to do with color as plenty of blacks, Asian and Hispanics have the same beliefs

YOU guys are the ones that put a racial spin on every damn thing

White supremacists (people that hate anyone not white) has zero to do with political beliefs