Brexit Deal Agreed Between UK & EU / Can UK cope without Northern Ireland?

A billion a week? That's an even bigger lie than the lie on a bus.
The actual net figure is closer to 180 million.
That's peanuts when you consider that we spend 2 billion a week on the NHS and a price well worth paying when you take into account the economic benefits of being in the single market.

 

Brexit is really boring and getting nowhere. After much consideration this should be the way forward

A new referendum with two choices, IN or OUT.

If OUT wins then goes to Parliament for a vote on only two choices, the deal or no deal and the only MPs allowed to vote are those who voted OUT in the referendum

 

When we get our cut back to do with as we are told - not in the first place.

I know of no benefits from being in the single market.

I am hoping now that Boris gives the deal one more try = it will fail = we leave with an agreed free trade agreement. fini

The Remoaners in Parliament, their pet Squeaker Bercow and now Gina Miller is sticking her ugly face in again - giving 16=17 year olds the vote! Refusing an election or a vote of no confidence - It is a bloody circus intended to kill democracy.

 

Do the English want a good chance of ending up with just England? Is leaving the EU worth it?

 

I think this is the best way forward for the British people.

I don't know if this second option is necessary, but OUT means the UK leaves the EU, deal or no deal.

 

I bet if the country reheld the vote on BREXIT today, it would not pass

Brexit was a fluke like America electing Trump was a fluke

this is why getting out to vote is so important

 

So you are telling me, that parliament has no say concerning the members of cabinet, no hearings, no vote, nada, as it is not in EU.

Just appointed.
Johnson never ran for PM, he was just appointed by his party, after the one who ran for PM in a GE quit.
Very democratic.

 

There already was a referendum with exact same questions.

 

Ive learned lately that the UK has some pretty weird government. No single document constitution, PMs are not elected directly, no mechanism to break deadlocks, simple majority in parliament is enough for everything and so on.
I like it more in the US - senate rules require 60 votes for pretty much everything and for most important things 2/3 required.

 

Democracy come in all different forms. The Uk has its, the US its, France hast its and my country Germany has its.
The EU has its form
The commission is the executive. It has special powers, like law making. But those proposed laws have to get through the council/senate and parliament and both houses can change those laws. The cabinet of the President of the commission needs approval of the parliament.
The President gets elected by the council and than needs the vote of the parliament.
It is a different process but it is still a democratic process.
Just because the process is different it does not make it undemocratic.
The parliament of the EU has the power to say no to the commission, because some commissioners are not acceptable. That's what happened right now.
The Parliament has the power of a vote of no confidance, 2/3 majority is required, like the US Senate.
If one looks how European democracies are constructed, they are all different, no written constitution, written constitutions, centralized, decentralized, federalized and so on.
The Eu had or has to have a system that brings all those different standards under one roof.

It is different, but it has all the checks and balances of a western style democracy.

 

There have only been Conservative governments since the referendum. They fought amongst themselves, didn't get it done, and citizens now better understand the consequences of Brexit. A second referendum would help settle the issue.

 

Look, the opposition in British parliament is afraid of elections. That’s why they rejected Boris’ calls to renew the parliament. Polls are showing that he would win real majority.
If these politicians are afraid of general elections, what makes you think new referendum would change things?

 

The English have always had an independent streak. There was a lot of propaganda about the EU being undemocratic, taking British tax money away from the taxpayers, attacks on British culture, etc. The Northern Irish and Gibraltarians didn't fall for it becuase EU membership was obviously a good thing for them and the Scots, while just as independent minded, are suspicions by nature of anything coming from the English. But the English and Welsh bought it hook line and sinker and because most British cities are in England, that allowed the Leavers to just barely win.

Of course it was all BS. While the executive level of government is top down, the EP is indeed democratic and by voting to leave they wiped out any political capital British MPs had, the EU in fact subsidized the UK and Mainland companies started to untangle themselves from British markets so they wouldn't be stuck dealing with customs controls once a hard border was reestablished. The Pound crashed, folks started getting laid off, the Remainder strongholds started thinking of ways to stay in the EU (NI joining the Republic, Gibraltar joining Spain, Scotland and London declaring independence then applying for EU membership) while Remainers in Leave strongholds very loudly shouted "Told you so!".

Since then you've had the Leavers basically saying "No take backs!" to anyone calling for a new vote with most of the British public having buyers remorse while the EU has been making a point of making the British suffer to ensure nobody else tries to leave.

 

While there are exceptions the Brexit vote is widely believed to have been, in the main, an English Nationalist vote. Polls since have confirmed this - in particular that a hard Brexit was worth more to most of them than keeping the Union and even more than they bothered about returning civil war to Ireland. At base this is about English Nationalism.

 

They certainly have not wanted to give him the opportunity to take this country out on a Hard Brexit. The Polls however that is another thing. Check out the Polls before May thought it would be a walk in the park to call an election and get an overwhelming majority - only to lose the small one she had.

 

Yes. The people who least got out to vote were the young. They have come to believe their vote counts for nothing. In this instance when they are the people who are going to be most affected by this and they were the people who most wanted to stay, it cost them dear.

 

We vote for the Party - The PM is not a Prez, he is the Leader of the Party which gained the most seats in the House. This norm has been thrown into chaos by a law brought in by Cameron when he was in a coalition Gov with the Libdems out of fear - the Fixed Term Act 2011 = a Gov must stay in situ for 5 years unless 2/3 of the House vote for a GE or call no confidence - Parliament are no refusing both.

. As I said Gov, the executive, comes out of the legislature there is not between them a separation of powers. Boris has asked for an election twice but Parliament has refused, so far. The Leader of the opposition has refuse to call no confidence because he wants to be acre taker PM but no one else wants that. They can't refuse Boris much longer if they are even to be able to pretend they believe in democracy - a democracy which the opposition are disrespecting in their coup of the HoC - holding the Gov prisoner in the House.

Of course the PM choses his own team.

There are many forms of democracy or rather structures for - and we all have grumbles about our own. You may criticize our, evolved from the early 13th century, Mother of all Parliaments' - which serves the oldest democracy in the western world - but since you don't seem to now much about it isn't that a bit foolish?

 

Well, Corbyn is afraid of the elections.
There must be a good reason for it. Otherwise he’d agree to them and would get his majority to completely shelve the Brexit.

 

Actually, the evidence points to Corbyn himself not wanting to deny us a GE. In fact he promised Boris one if Boris let the Benn Act pass through the two Houses - The Lords were ready to filibuster the Act but after Corbyn's promise for a GE Boris told them to let it through. Corbyn is not in control of the Labour party though, is he? Corbyn reneged on his promise - Mcdonnell and co changed his mind for him - He, Corbyn who was always anti EU - if is painful to watch in and of itself - apart from the damage this turn coat has wrought.

The power within the Labour Party is very complex

 

It was the Welsh and the English Leave vote which got us, against all the rigging, our Brexit vote. Mainly from the working class ex industrial areas - Labour Heartlands.

You keep on and on about breaking up the Union but really the majority of Scots are as sick of Blackford et al as are the rest of us ---- and why, really why, should the English work against Scotland leaving if they want to Leave? That is what you are saying - you are saying that the English should be cowered by the Scots wishes.

NI was being discussed in Parliament today, in detail - it often is - usually to an empty House. NI is difficult because their Parliament is not sitting --- over the loosening of abortion laws, wasn't it? That Sinn Fein walked out - I forget now.If you had lived through the Troubles too ( an acquaintance of mine lost his leg in one of their pub bombs) you would be bored by Sinn fein's tantrums too! But the DUP who work closely with the EGR are working the details through with Gov. I don't really get their sudden problem with something they agreed on --- there are now and always have been checks on animals coming from NI to GB = Rev Ian Paisley himself said ' I am British but my cows are Irish'' - but they'll work it out.

 

When considering who to vote for I consider the individual first, their party is a secondary consideration.
For example although Rory Stewart and Marc Francois were said to be in the same party at the last election I perceive them to be very different individuals.

 

They should have got off their bloody mobile phones and out of bed to vote then shouldn't they? They had all day to do it. As it was, many many Remoaner Uni students admitted that they did vote twice --- once at Uni and once at home - so then their double votes probably put the lazy none votes right' eh?

Have we ever had such a useless generation as this one? Nope - never. Our education systems have fails children since the 1970s - to such an extent that it could be classed as a crime against children and society.

 

The rebels have been sacked and or blacklisted for voting for the Benn Act and against the time table - had the whip taken away. They can't be in a Party and at the same time conspire, with the opposition, against it, can they?. Some rebel seats already have other candidates at the ready. Stewart, whom I used to like very much, but feel now that he has lost the plot, is talking about starting another new party - some Cons have changed party over this, gone over to Libdem, some have gone independent - whilst still holding their seats!

You are right this is no longer a party political matter - we are divided into leave or Remain now. I live in a safe Tory seat but still shall, for the first time, vote Tory anyway.

 

Why do you think that would happen?

 

Leave won, when people decided to vote leave, they voted for a clean break from the EU. In the wake of that, remain supporters acknowledged leave had won, and instead clung to hopes of a 'Norway Style' Brexit. However, these are remain supporters and not those who voted leave. Leave won, not remain.