More than 200 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza after Islamic Jihad leader killed

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Thedimon, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Iron_Merc

    Iron_Merc Banned

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    The short term goal of Hamas is to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation. The long-term aim sought to establish an Islamic state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. Remember, ISIS is short for ISLAMIC STATE.

    Remember Mohammed, the murdering warlord? Sexual pedophile? The religion of Hamas is Islam, just like ISIS. They have the same goals: Liberate the Palestinians / Muslims and destroy Israel. They will accomplish success using the same methods of force applied by ISIS via Jihad. Both groups consider this a Holy War and do NOT consider Israel to be a sovereign state.

    The original Charter identified Hamas as the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and declares its members to be Muslims who "fear God and raise the banner of Jihad in the face of the oppressors." The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state (ISIS is known as Islamic State) in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories, and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. It emphasizes the importance of jihad, stating in article 13, "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors." The charter also states that Hamas is humanistic, and tolerant of other religions as long as they "stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region". The Charter adds that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion" of Islam.

    The present new Hamas Charter does not contain this language. But the omission is in the interest of legitimating themselves in the world of diplomacy. Nothing has changed. They still educate their children to hate and murder Jews. However, Hamas has learned a valuable lesson from the Europeans. If you want to hate Jews, call them "zionists" rather than Jews and it becomes politically correct in some circles.

    Israel has never knowingly supported ISIS and they are pretty explicit about this. Think about it, you would ever supply weapons and cash to your sworn enemy who wants your nation totally destroyed, down to every last jew?

    Except Israel didnt want to increase support for ISIS. This is claim Israel vehemently denies and can be backed up with proper context, below...

    You are losing sight of Israel and its goals - first and foremost they would never support an ideology that wants to see them wiped off the face of the earth, right?

    Israel’s increased entanglement stems from a growing realization that Russia and the United States are unwilling or unable to deal with Iran’s growing clout in Syria.

    Israel’s position is that not only is there still something to be done in Syria, but that this involvement is essential to allow the less extremist groups to survive, to stop the regime’s progress and the rise in Iran’s standing.

    But three understandings are emerging as Israel updates its positions in light of developments: First, an Assad victory would be bad for Israel because it would also mean victory for Assad’s allies, Iran and Hezbollah. Second, despite the heavy Russian bombings and internal disagreements in its ranks, the Syrian opposition is far from vanquished. The third is that the West must rouse itself from its inaction and try to send real military aid to what Israeli security officials describe as a kind of third force, the less extreme Sunni rebels and the Kurdish militias, so they, too, will stand up against the regime as well as against the Islamic State.

    So Im sure you can now see, the situation was not black an white as you have defined it. Israel never supported ISIS or it's affiliates. But Obama provided money and arms to ISIS in an effort to see them realize the caliphate.

    [​IMG]

    Too bad that's never going to happen now that Trump has obliterated "JV" ISIS that Obama propped up for many years, feeding them cash and weapons, all the while peddling feeble stories to the press about how we are making progress "dismantling and destroying" ISIS. Obama was a terrorist in chief, this much we know. He's probably shed a few tears for Bin Laden and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

    [​IMG]

    What is little known is the fact that Obama lost sleep over dealing with Bin Laden. The Islamic sympathizer part of his brain didnt want to kill him but US intelligence agencies forced his hand. You see, If it were up to Obama, he would saved Bin Laden's life, create a fake birth certificate and had Hillary make him Secretary of State, where they could plan and collude and plot the destruction of America (for good).

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    Then why is Israel so closely allied with Israel despite the strict Wahabi Islam there? There is zero evidence Obama wanted to spare Bin Laden's life or that Obama was a Muslim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  3. Iron_Merc

    Iron_Merc Banned

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    That was hyperbole to some extent - that Obama lost sleep while debating whether to kill Bin Laden or not. We now know he didn't lose sleep. But we can confirm that Obama was deeply resentful of the courier who tracked Bin Laden to the compound, as Obama swore softly under his breath after learning that the US intelligence community had located Bin Laden in Pakistan. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but there are some people out there who believe Bin Laden is still alive and again, this would come back to Obama's Muslim roots and sympathies for murders and pedophiles who subscribe to the cult of subjugation and submission known as Islam. Need i remind you of the Bowe Bergdahl fiasco? The fact remains we have no DNA sample no real documentation and nothing concrete to confirm that Osama was actually killed that day. Dumping his body at sea within 24 hours as yet another example of Obama's love and deep respect and reverence for the tenants of Islam. A proper Islamic burial must happen within a 24 hour window, and Obama followed these guidelines to a tee. For the record, Obama was the opposite of a patriot.

    Doubts about bin Laden's death were fueled by the U.S. military's supposed disposal of his body at sea, the decision to not release any photographic or DNA evidence of bin Laden's death to the public, the contradicting accounts of the incident (with the official story on the raid appearing to change or directly contradict previous assertions), and the 25-minute blackout during the raid on bin Laden's compound during which a live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the U.S. special forces was cut off.

    On May 4, the Obama administration announced it would not release any images of Bin Laden's dead body. The administration had considered releasing the photos to dispel rumors of a hoax, at the risks of perhaps prompting another attack by al Qaeda and of releasing very graphic images to people who might find them disturbing. Several photos of the aftermath of the raid were given to Reuters by an anonymous Pakistani security official, but though all appeared to be authentic, they were taken after the U.S. forces had left and none of them included evidence regarding bin Laden's fate.

    The primary source of skepticism about the U.S. government's story has been its own refusal to provide any physical evidence to substantiate its claim. Although the Abbottabad raid has been described in great detail by U.S. officials, no physical evidence constituting actual proof of his death has been offered to the public, neither to journalists nor to independent third parties who have requested this information through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Numerous organizations filed FOIA requests seeking at least a partial release of photographs, videos, and/or DNA test results, including The Associated Press, Reuters, CBS News, Judicial Watch, Politico, Fox News, Citizens United, and NPR. At the time of filing their FOIA request, The Associated Press said:

    This information is important for the historical record. That's our view.
    — Michael Oreskes, Senior Managing Editor, The Associated Press

    On April 26, 2012, a US federal judge decided in the case Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Defense, et al that the DoD did not need to release any evidence to the public.

    Israel is allied with Israel because when you have nearly twenty arab states that seek your destruction, you have to be your own best friend and NOT your own worst enemy (lol i know you meant Saudi Arabia). The creation of the Jewish State in 1948 was miraculous in so many ways. And the Jew's have been good stewards to the land, bringing in industry and innovation, leading some of the most advanced studies and research in the world. Israel has brought untold amounts of wealth into the middle east, and Israeli Arabs are the most wealthy arabs in the middle east. Israel has the 2nd most advanced military in the world, second only to the United States.

    In reference to Saudi Arabia:
    In September 2014, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry met with then Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal in the city of Jeddah to discuss ISIL militant battles and related issues. Al-Faisal commented that his nation has "always taken initiatives with regard to a firm position towards terrorists and against them", and he also stated that "there is no limit to what the Kingdom can provide in this regard."

    Specific anti-ISIL efforts include Saudi government collaboration since late 2014 with the U.S. to train and equip Syrian fighters hoping to combat ISIL militants. The government has also created a television series titled Security of the Kingdom designed to combat ISIL propaganda while promoting the Saudi perspective on security issues, aiming to foster patriotism.

    Israel and Saudi Arabia do not have any official diplomatic relations. However, news reports have surfaced indicating extensive behind-the-scenes diplomatic and intelligence cooperation between the countries, in pursuit of mutual goals against regional enemy Iran. At the same time, the Saudi relationship with the Palestinian National Authority and Mahmoud Abbas is deteriorating.

    In spite of not having official diplomatic relations, they cooperate with each other by intelligence exchange, especially about Iran. In a meeting at the Washington office of the Council on Foreign Relations, Anwar Eshki, a retired major general in the Saudi armed forces and Dore Gold, a former Israeli ambassador close to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, discussed "their common interests in opposing Iran".

    In June 2017, former Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon stated that “We and the Arabs, the same Arabs who organized in a coalition in the Six-Day War to try to destroy the Jewish state, today find themselves in the same boat with us … The Sunni Arab countries, apart from Qatar, are largely in the same boat with us since we all see a nuclear Iran as the number one threat against all of us,

    In short, Iran is the common denominator between Saudi Arabia and Israel
    relations. They unite around the most hostile threat in the region, and that's Iran. Obama loves Iran. Why? Because Iran hates Israel and wants to wipe it of the face of the earth.

    Sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Response_of_Saudi_Arabia_to_ISIL
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Saudi_Arabia_relations
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden_death_conspiracy_theories
     
  4. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are those deliberate lies or do you not know any better?

    Israel Supports ISIS

    Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon admitted Israeli support for ISIS and other takfiri terrorists, calling them Syrian rebels – failing to explain they’re imported from scores of countries… There are no so-called “moderates” among them.

    Also...
    Iraqi security forces captured an Israeli colonel, Yuri Oulen Shahak, working directly with ISIS terrorists!!! He explained Netanyahu’s criminality during interrogation...


    Since Obama waged war on Syria in March 2011, Israel bombed government targets multiple times. It continues supplying terrorist elements with weapons, munitions and other support.

    Over 1,000 of their wounded fighters were treated in Israeli hospitals, helping them recover to resume waging terror on Syria.
    [​IMG]

    I remember that photo from some years ago. The humanity of Israel was a calculated selfish act. Nevertheless, it was kind to help the wounded, no matter for what reason.

    Ya’alon claiming Israeli policy excludes “getting involved in the Syrian war” is a lie.

    Israel’s long-range goal is:
    unchallenged regional hegemony,
    independent governments eliminated in Syria, Iran and Lebanon,
    area nations balkanized into mini-states for easier control,
    undeclared Israeli borders expanded to incorporate territory of neighboring states.

    Read more here:
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-supports-isis/5492807
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Let anyone have any doubts, lets use Israel's own media quoting their own officials.
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/
    Ya’alon: I would prefer Islamic State to Iran in Syria
    Defense minister says jihadists don’t ‘have capabilities’ of Islamic Republic, which he brands Israel’s ‘greatest enemy’

    Nor was this only a view shared by Israel's defense minister.

    https://www.salon.com/2016/08/23/is...s-a-useful-tool-against-iran-hezbollah-syria/

    Israeli think tank: Don't destroy ISIS; it's a "useful tool" against Iran, Hezbollah, Syria
    Head of a right-wing think tank says the existence of ISIS serves a "strategic purpose" in the West's interests

    Besides using their influence to force focus on fighting Assad, and Hezbollah, and quietly working with their "partners" (e.g., US, Saudi Arabia et al) to provide much of the military, financial and diplomatic support that ISIS and other Sunni jihadist groups were receiving indirectly under the pretense of arming 'democratic rebels', the Israelis were even providing direct assistance to ISIS and company on the ground in Syria. The full extent of Israel's assistance will require that I post from Iranian accounts which would be discredited here, but some of that assistance was widely reported by western and even Israeli media.

    https://www.indetpendent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html
    Israel ‘giving secret aid to Syrian rebels’, report says
    Direct funding, food, fuel and medical supplies allegedly provided by Israeli state to keep Isis and Iranian-allied forces in neighbouring civil war at bay

    Anyway, as for Israel's 'obsession' to fight Iran, it is fortunate the Iran's enemies are ultimately as clueless and fooled by their own propaganda as some of the posters here.
     
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  6. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    They call themselves "Islamic State" but in the Muslim world, they're called "Daesh".
    Muslim scholars reject ISIS: http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/
     
  7. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whether it is true or not, the Arabs relate to Ishmael and the Jews relate
    to Isaac. Interesting, if not fascinating. What hope has ANYONE got of
    solving this four thousand year old quagmire?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  8. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But... Iran seems 'OBSESSED' with Israel. I don't see Israel arming the nations
    around Iran with missiles. I don't hear Israel call Iran a "one bomb country". I
    don't see the IDF stationing itself on the Iranian border. I don't see Israel think
    it has a religious "duty" to liberate Iran from Persians.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am only going to deal with this one issue as understanding this is critical to understanding the other issues. I see other posters have already called you out on your claims . You have been repeating one of a number of State Sponsored propaganda narratives that have no basis in reality when one understands what was really happening.

    1) Don't confuse the Kurds with the anti Assad Proxy army. The Kurd's were a group caught in the middle - just like so many other ethnic religious groups.

    2) The "rebels" were Al Qaeda/ISIS - Islamist Jihadists with the goal of turning Syria into an Islamic State.

    So when you say - "Lets review: in 2016, Israel grew increasingly concerned as Assad’s regime stabilized and Iran’s and Hizballah’s presence in Syria expanded. Repeated Israeli appeals to the Obama administration to increase support for the rebels were rejected"

    Who are these "rebels" who Israel is asking to be supported ? The fact of the matter is that you simply don't know and this is the problem.

    When you say "Syrian Rebels" who are you talking about - which group - Those under the Banner of Al Qaeda - or those under the banner of ISIS ? and does it make any difference with respect to this conversation ? Absolutely not - both the same garbage - just different pile.

    Calling for increased support for the "Rebels" is calling for increased support for this garbage.

    Your support for your claim is first and foremost they would never support an ideology that wants to see them wiped off the face of the earth, right? This is poorly worded to begin with .. of course Israel does not support the Islamist ideology. They did however support a proxy army - along with the US and the vast number of other nations mentioned - that held this ideology.

    Your support for claim is just wishful thinking - and has no basis in the reality on the ground.

    One could say the same thing about the Pentagon and US administration - "The US would never support the 911 terrorist group - Al Qaeda" - The fact of the matter is that is exactly what these Establishment wonks did - and Israel was a part of this coalition of Evil.

    Ya’alon: I would prefer Islamic State to Iran in Syria
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-i-would-prefer-islamic-state-to-iran-in-syria/

    The above directly contradicts your claim "Israel would never support ISIS"
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump did not Obliterate ISIS - This is a propaganda narrative that has no basis in reality. For at least the first 5 years of the war the US was allied with the radical Islamist Jihadists. It was our proxy army against Assad.

    After taking over most of Syria in the first 2 years of the war - many of these Jihadist groups coalesced into an Islamic State in 2013 .. by this time the any significant moderate presence among the rebels was long gone.

    All of the cities under the control of Al Qaeda/ISIS were turned into Strict Sharia Islamist nightmares - dark age style .. The radical Islamists took over these cities - set up sharia courts and daily atrocity and war crimes became the rule.

    In particular - these head choppers went after Christians and other religious groups. Some in the US were very concerned about the Christians in Syria - and rightly so. Assad by the way - had Christian Generals in his army. While you may have supported the US position to support this Jihadist proxy army - the Christians in Syria were fighting for the Assad regime - fighting against this proxy army that Obama created.

    This fellow actually went to Syria - you should go listen to some of his talks with respect to this conflict.

    Virginia Senator Thanks Syrian President Bashar Al Assad for Saving the Lives of Christians
    Open Letter of U.S. Senator Richard H. Black to President Bashar al-Assad Acknowledges US Support to Terrorists

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/virgi...ad-for-saving-the-lives-of-christians/5384338

    These were "Our Boys" - in Syria. This was the proxy army our tax dollars went to support.

    "My personal thanks to the Syrian Arab Army and Air Force for protecting all patriotic Syrians, including religious minorities, raped, tortured, kidnapped and beheaded at the hands of the foreign jihadists”…

    I cannot explain how Americans, who suffered so grievously at the hands of al-Qaeda, were tricked into supporting the jihadists.

    But I do know that many U.S. officials disagree with equipping and training the terrorists who penetrate your borders from the Kingdom of Jordan and through Turkey. Senator Richard H. Black of Virginia, 13th District

    Now before you go off on some "it was all Obama" tirade ... it wasn't just him and the Blue Establishment.. This was the Pentagon, CIA, folks like McCain and Red Establishment in general.

    The MSM - both left and right - was completely complicit in propping up the various Establishment false narratives - Lie after Lie - deception after deception.

    So it is no surprise when you tout these false narratives - this however does not make them any less false.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  11. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of your post, but I'll never believe the part about Obama intentionally arming ISIS and al-Qaeda. Some of the American weapons fell into the hands of the jihadists when groups of rebels supported by the US joined them. It still doesn't mean that Obama armed the jihadists.

    Obama seemingly thought that he knew better than everyone else what's good and what works in the Middle East. However, I don't buy for a second the supposed US-ISIS alliance. Self declared anti-western jihadist leaders would never associate themselves with the hated US, because they'd lose every ounce of legitimacy in their followers' eyes. Being US-friendly is the third most heinous accusation for a jihadist (number one is being Jewish, the second is being a Zionist).

    One important question nobody is asking is why did Iraqi soldiers abandon their army bases with all equipment intact, effectively handing weapons and territory to ISIS without offering any resistance whatsoever. The Iraqi government at the time wasn't pro-US, by the way. It was pro-Iran.
     
  12. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Israel supports ISIS because ISIS is an enemy of Hamas and Iran. :(

    I suppose the rebels who wanted to overthrow the dictatorship of Bashar in favor of democracy does no longer exist.
     
  13. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Any sane government would prefer the weaker enemy on the border. Yawn.

    Do you ever check the info in your sources? The author of the article on the Besacenter site is not the head of the think-tank. The director is Prof. Efraim Karsh. Sloppy journalism, Salon. Biased and sloppy.

    Yes, Prof. Efraim Inbar is certainly entitled to his own opinion. We can agree or disagree, but we can't stifle opinions. Unlike Fars News, that is.

    Poppycock.

    Israel provided assistance to the group on our northern border, which was not ISIS, because it kept Hezbollah and Iranian forces at bay. Israel never went after Assad. Even the Independent article linked in your post doesn't support your "direct assistance to ISIS" allegations, and it's not an Israeli-friendly source.

    Why did Iraqi soldiers in the Iraqi army abandon army bases with all equipment intact, letting precious weapons fall into the hands of ISIS? Iraqi government was Iran-friendly, wasn't it?

    Let's see who's obsessed with what.

    http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Le...nasrallah-alleges-christian-zionist-plot.ashx

    That from the leader of Hezbollah, the organization founded, funded and armed by Iran. Whose propaganda is that, again?
     
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  14. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Here are some breaking dusty old news.

    1. Not everybody hated Jews in the region.
    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-when-arabs-were-freedom-fighters-for-israel-1.5376699

    2 .Most Jews in Mandate Palestine, and later Israel, were then and are now MENA natives, not Europeans.

    3. God made man, put him on a continent, and said "don't you dare leave this continent, or else...". Pfftt.

    4. Millions of Jews had just been murdered in Europe, but Jews should have stayed there because nobody hated them...yeah, right. Nope.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  15. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    As it relates to Israel's public stated, and privately acted upon, preference for ISIS and their preference for them over Assad and allied forces tied to Iran, your version of sanity seriously conflicts with mine.
    You like to divert from the point and are entitled to that too:) Otherwise, in citing the article published by the Israeli think tank, I am not sure whether it was this or that "Professor" who actually wrote the article was relevant. Regardless, whether Salon misidentified the author as the "head" of the think tank had nothing to do with what I was saying.
    Israel provided direct assistance to a dozen so-called "rebel groups". They may not have gone with the ISIS brand, but most of them were of the same ilk. What's more, while I can't provide "western" media or "Israeli media" to give you the narrative, many Iranian accounts at the time often mentioned various advances by pro Iran forces against ISIS or Al Queda directly thwarted by Israeli and even American actions on the ground.

    Anyway, regardless of the label they chose for themselves, it is a fact that Israel provided some direct assistance to many rebel groups fighting Assad, most of them Sunni jihadists. If you want a more "Israeli-friendly" source than the Independent, maybe the Times of Israel will do? (The article admits Israeli assistance to around a dozen rebel groups, admits it only stopped after an 'agreement with Russia' intended to keep Assad and pro Iran forces away from the Israeli border, but those rebel groups didn't follow the ISIS brand.)
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/repor...outh-syria-for-years-in-effort-to-block-iran/
    Report: Israel armed rebels in south Syria for years, in effort to block Iran

    Next time you comment about Iran, make sure you cite "Fars News" since any other source you would provide would not be "Iran friendly":)
    You honestly have a very poor understanding of the issue.

    The Iraqi military forces were trained by the US and even Maliki was handpicked by the Americans as Iraq's PM to replace Jaffari who was seen as being "too close to Iran". But after the US began to actively fund, train, and arms Sunni forces outside of the jurisdiction of the Iraqi government in various guises, both as Sons of Iraq (a 100,000 men armed military unit trained and funded by the US), as well as working with radical anti-Shia, Sunni Jihadists ostensibly to split and fight the leadership of AQ in Iraq (in reality to coopt and redirect the group to fight Iran) as part of what was sold to the Americans as the "surge", Maliki began to see the writing on the wall. That is when he started moving closer to Iran to counterbalance the danger he was seeing. Viewing the Americans as working to undermine the very government they had set up in Iraq! That is why insisted that that the US withdraw its forces from Iraq. When the Americans left, and the Sons of Iraq were disbanded, many of those forces and their equipment went to the "radical anti-Shia" Sunni jihadists the Americans had also been working with. The combination of these elements -- ex Ba'athist officers and Sunni jihadists and Sunni tribal members trained, funded and armed by the US -- worked together now under the IS or later ISIS umbrella or label. Against this force, the Iraqi military (trained by the US and whose officer corps remained mainly Sunni still), and which had little serious allegiance anyone except their paychecks, wasn't a force to risk anything and fight anyone. It took direct Iranian intervention and arming of Shia militia and Kurdish militia by Iran to defeat the advance of ISIS in Iraq and to reduce them to the few areas they controled when the American also joined the fight against ISIS in Iraq. The story had different twists in Syria, but the main theme was similar.
     
  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really? I am aware that they are now but in the Mandate? Can you provide a link for this?
    Well most Colonialists of that period have had to return home. The Zionists did call themselves Colonialists till the activity went out of fashion.

    Of course European Jews deserved safety. I am not sure however that the analogy is correct. They were not in general ethnic nationalists. Very few of the survivors wanted to move to Israel.

    https://jps.ucpress.edu/content/35/2/103
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Incidentally, for the genesis of the "brilliant idea" to finance, arm, train and encourage Sunni jihadist movements, you will need to go back to the 2007 article by Seymour Hersh in the New Yorker entitled the "Redirection".

    For a still clueless mea culpa from the anti-Iran side, seeing how their projects with respect to these Sunni jihadists as a weapon against Iran blew eventually in their own faces too, you can read an article just a few days ago which I cite below. (The article is anti-Iran and still clueless in what it proposes, but the admission of support for these groups is there between the lines and in the main thrust of the argument).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...banon-iran-militias-middle-east-a9201026.html
    The Gulf states tried to turn Iran’s own weapon against it – and it backfired with terrible consequences
    The Middle East is being dragged into anarchy by a belt of state-backed militias and armed groups. Wealthy Arab states have to take responsibility for creating the problem
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  18. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    So true, What they call Isreal is not what I or the UN called Isreal. They conquer territory and somehow expect the conquered people to act docile
     
  19. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The conquest is the result of the arab attacking Israel in the first place.
    If the arabs don't want to lose territories, they should stop trying to invade.
     
  20. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    No, the wars were due to Palestinian displacement by jews first in '47 and in every war after. Aand dthe US should stop backing Isreal to the degree that it does, Isreal could go back to UN Borders and conquered land could be a DMZ under palistian control. I think Peace then would have a chance, but as long as Isreal occupies land that was not granted to it by the UN they will never be peace. See, I don't believe that Isreal has any more right to a state than the Palestinians who were there prior to 47
     
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  21. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Too late for that. The arabs attacked Israel and they lost. Idiocy is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Each time they attack, they lose a bit more. Soon they won't have anything left by their own hands. Their own brothers, Egypt and Jordan don't want to help them anymore. Only some delusional white euros with a guilt and savior complex are coming to their defense on forums, since they are really too cowardly to go there and fight for their ideal. They are quite content to encouraging other to do the dying in their place though.
     
  22. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would love to see the Palestinians increase the quality of their lives, but their own leaders keep them angry and primitive to preserve their willingness to be used as pawns against Israel.
     
  23. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not a fan of religion, fake propaganda maps, or hour-long propaganda videos. I am a fan of being alive and I can do that in Israel if I decide to visit. My beliefs are a crime in most of the region. Israel is the only strip of land in the region where it is safe to be Christian, Jewish, atheist, gay, opinionated, or critical of religion/government.

    I agree that peace is not in the forecast and that is why containing the threat is the best option at this time. The Palestinians and their leadership are their own worst enemy.
     
  24. Jacob E Mack

    Jacob E Mack Well-Known Member

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    1. Not all Nazis hated Jews either.

    2. Depends upon what years you are considering: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/09/europes-jewish-population/

    3. Not sure what you mean here?

    4.) I never claimed no one hated Jews in Europe (or US, etc) but the Middle East is a bigger threat to them, and besides Israel is not a Democratic state really--it is still theocratic.
     
  25. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To be theocratic you have to have a religious figure as the head of government. BiBi is many things but a priest he isn't.
    The only theocracies today are the Vatican and Iran. Tibet could be considered one but the Dalai Lama is in exile and the country is in fact controlled by Beijing.
     

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