America has No Allies in a War with Iran!

The 'dark side' is the invading army...the U.S./NATO forces.

Iran has invaded no one. Iran has been pissing off NATO by helping to destroy the NATO-sponsored terrorist groups that NATO has been pretending to wage a fake war against. Iran is also pissing off NATO by helping to protect regimes that NATO has been trying to oust.

 

I was talking more from an economic perspective - my post was not very clear.

The point of the OP is that NATO is not participating.

 

How nice. Trump, the stable genius, is best friends with Putin, who is sane. Put the two together and you have a dynamic duo!

 

Abandoning the Iran nuclear agreement, re-imposing crippling sanctions that kill poor women and children, surrounding Iran with US troops and bases, designating Iran's military as a terrorist organization, directly threatening and demonizing Iran's leaders with chicken-hawk war mongering immature threats, violating international law by murdering a foreign leader with a cowardly drone strike(his character and reputation are irrelevant), or inciting US hatred throughout the ME, or telling other countries NOT to buy oil from Iran or risk being sanctioned(China, India, and other Mediterranean countries refused), or making accusations that it was Iran that attacked ships or blew up oil wells without evidence, or that these clear provocations are designed to "...prevent a war", then it is YOU that is in denial or fooling yourself. But if you think that the largest military(over 500K) in the ME, is NOT capable of responding, or will only do as they are told, or will not be supported by Russia, China, Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Libya, and other Arab countries(including Turkey), then you are simply ignoring the inconvenient truth. Do you think that the killing of 8 Iraqi citizens in the attack, should only be considered as collateral damage at best?

If you think that Trump should not consult Congress, then you must believe that Trump SHOULD act as a Dictator, just like Hitler. As long as he puts "America First", at all costs(Hitler put Germany first), then the ends will always justify the means, right? Oh, you must also ignore the US Constitution, that gives the US Congress the sole right to declare war and fund our military, NOT TRUMP. The Constitution was designed to prevent the President from having this much power. But without Tulsi and Bernie, Congress is just a bought-and-paid-for toothless tiger, for Trump to ignore. You might applaud Trump's bullying other country into submission by killing its citizens, but the rest of the rational world clearly disagrees with you. The rest of the world sees Trump as a pathetic demented demagogue, that exploits elitism, hatred, bigotry, racism, and intolerance. Eventually, the world will have no choice but to fight back against America's blatant corporate-driven Imperialism. Hence, no allied support. No country is that strong, as Germany ultimately found out the hard way. When we demonize countries we attack, we need to manufacture the truth. But, Iran and the other ME countries will be fighting WITH the truth on their side.

Why did Trump only give the Saudis and Israel the head's up about the drone attack, and not any of his own allies? Because he is their bitch, to be used to further their own interests. Why do you think the US allies are all trying to placate Iran from responding to Trumps blatant provocations? Why do you think they do not bother talking to Trump, and his merry band of apathetic power-drunk, war mongering sociopaths? It is their hope that Trump will eventually do something so obvious, that even his die-hard supporters, will be unable to create a narrative to support their confirmation bias(maybe not). I think Kim expresses my concerns the best, if you are interested in the truth.



The US military occupation in the ME, is no different than the Nazi's occupation of France, Poland, Russia, etc. But, when the people fought back, they were also designated as terrorists/insurgents, or rebels. We have absolutely no reason to still have our military in the ME. Especially, since we are killing more civilians everyday. Saddam has been dead for 14 years, and bin Laden has been dead for 9 years. Why are we still illegally occupying foreign soil? Please stop this madman from prostituting our military to Saudi Arabia, and to help Netanyahu escape being thrown into jail. Most rational thinkers knew that if Trump got into office, that WWIII was more than just a possibility. Our greatest fears are just starting to become a reality. I have never believed in the prophecies by the Aluminati, that a idiotic bellicose rich man, will come into power, and will destroy most of the planet. However, this seems to be the case. Maybe some of you Trump supporters, can tell me the best way to join Trump, as he hides in his presidential bunker? Maybe you Trump supporters can tell the parents and loved-ones of the body-bags they receive, what their loved ones died for? Islamic terrorism claimed an average of 5 live per YEAR since 2001. 300 lives were lost per year, from people falling off a ladder. Maybe a Federal Department on Ladder Security should be created? You have a better chance of winning lotto, than dying from any terrorist attack(1 in 4M). So, do we tell them the truth, or just the Corporatists' politically-correct truth?

 

You do get that Israel is currently in an informal alliance with the Saudis, Egypt & other Sunni forces in the region right now. Yes? Their anti-semitism is currently secondary to their fear of Iran & its Shia allies.

So who is going to attack Israel? Syria barely exists as a nation. Ditto Libya & Lebanon. Sudan is in turmoil. Tunisia & Algeria have better things to do (plus no actual capacity for action). Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, the Saudis & the Gulf States aren't interested in angering the US or getting a nuke dropped on them. Several of them are also not interested in using up military assets needed for other actual or potential conflicts. Does that leave anyone?

As long as Israel is on the side of the US it will just face the same enemies it currently has - Hezbollah, Hamas & Iran. Personally I don't think Israel will risk stoking the flames of anti-semitism among the populations of said nations by directly going to war alongside the US without direct provocation, but the ME you talk about ceased to exist a few years ago. Iran & Shias v Sunnis is the bigger game now. Israel threatens no one important. Iran threatens just about everyone important.

 

If there is an uneasy "truce" based upon the "enemy of enemy..." rationale currently in place it exists on shifting sands rather than bedrock. If Iran offered peace in exchange for the destruction of Israel that "alliance" would disappear in a heartbeat.

 

Wrong, as usual americand dont understand the region. Iranians now unite behind the regime.. They are patriotic. You must be incredible ignorant that patriotic iranians would join a foreign enemy against their own country.

 

Nope.

First, this is more than just a 'truce'. This has been going on in some form for a decade. There is military & intelligence cooperation including Israeli arms sales to the Saudis. The Saudis & some Gulf states have explicitly recognised Israel's right to exist. As long as Iran is a threat there is a far greater motive to maintain that cooperation than to fight each other.

Second & most importantly, Iran poses an existential threat to Sunni regimes in the ME, in particular the Gulf States. Israel does not pose any threat to those states unless they attack it. They know this. As long as Iran maintains & increases its capabilities any 'peace' offered will be meaningless.

If those states fight Israel they not only degrade their military capacity in the short term, they burn their major arms supplier - the US & other Western nations (who the US will lean on to cut them off). Iran has no such problem. Why on earth would the Sunni nations of the ME make themselves weaker while their biggest enemy gets stronger? Not going to happen.

 

Alliances in the ME are made to be broken!

If China or Russia offered them a better deal they would bail on Israel because that is how things are there.

 

Not if Iran is still a bigger threat. Putting themselves in the hands of the nations supporting Iran while turning their back on the nations opposed to Iran is a high risk strategy.

The US has been a reliable ally for the Saudis & Gulf States almost three generations. The idea that the Saudis would just bail on that in order to weaken themselves and then turn themselves over to the nations arming their most powerful adversary is pure fantasy.

 

If the Chinese decided that it was a smarter move to support the Saudis instead of Iran that entire alliance would disappear.

 

If they were planning a “big one”.... those plans do not disappear because this guy was killed

as far as terrorism is concerned, a minor group brought down the World Trade Center

We have never faced terror coming from a fairly large and developed nation...
Imo you grossly underestimating Iran’s capacity to cause problems outside the ME

And, you indirectly acknowledge that when we call them a terrorist nation... we are exclusively talking about events restricted to the Middle East... this was because this is where their policy diverged from our policy. Now, there is no necessary reason that future terrorism will be restricted to that region.

He could have not exacerbated the situation that existed when he was elected, For better or worse, what happens now will be a direct result of his policy choices.,,

Let’s see whether we like what happens next.... and let’s not pretend that we had no other option. Donald Trump specifically rejected previous policy. If things work out better, he would take credit. So let’s not accept excuses if his policy reversal yields bad results

 

The IMPOTUS had multiple policy options and picked the WORST one of all which even appalled some Pentagon officials!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/...40c637495607fcedebb77f556e72&regi_id=65690372

The IMPOTUS made a LETHAL decision based upon his EMOTIONAL REACTION to watching television!

Zero consideration was given the CONSEQUENCES of an Act of War against a senior official of the Iranian government nor was the FACT that the general was one of the primary reasons that ISIS was defeated.

Now We the People must deal with the DIRE RAMIFICATIONS of his STUPIDITY!

 

If you want to keep relying on magic reasoning to defend a premise I suspect even you know is bogus then have at it.

In the real world the Saudis & Gulf States aren't going to dump a generations long alliance with a superpower that can drop an army, airforce & navy in the region to assist them in a relatively short space of time, and has already done so, in favour of a nation that not only cannot do any of that, but has NEVER done it in its entire history. They aren't going to junk their entire logistics supply chain & render billions of $ of equipment close to useless just to spend billions more replacing it with stuff that is no better and is supplied by a nation with a decades long relationship with their most dangerous enemy.

Oh, and then having done all this they are going to fight a war with a nation that poses no threat to them while the nation that does threaten them gets stronger. Yeah, sure.

Unless the US walks away from the Saudis & Gulf States or places conditions on the alliance they can't cope with they will stick with the devil they not only know, but understand.

Any fantasy you can concoct I can rebut with a real world understanding of how these things actually work.

 

Oh, and just to repeat, the premise of this thread is wrong. The US already has allies in the region and they will assist US efforts one way or another.

 

You are basing your entire grasp of the ME on the assumption that they do things for rational reasons.

Anyone who knows the history and the mindset of the ME is well aware that rationality and reasoning are seldom, if ever, the reason for doing anything at all.

So your PROJECTION of your own lack of subject matter knowledge is ironic to say the least.

 

More magical thinking.

I'm basing my assessment of the behaviour of the Saudis & the Gulf states on what they have done for generations. That is very calculated and very rational. It is also very effective. They have thrived with US assistance.

As for the 'irrational' ME, that is your projection, not mine. Most of the states there act in ways that are very rational based on their own calculations. I'm happy to give a list if it will help (I suspect it won't). Most of those states are run by families/organizations that stay in power for decades or generations. Irrational rulers rarely last that long. That they sometimes get it wrong is no different to any other nation. The whole 'ME is crazy' thing is for people who are too lazy or too prejudiced to bother looking at what actually happens in the region.

 

Sure they will....NOT!

Every other leader in the world has already come to the conclusion that the IMPOTUS is an egotistical blowhard with ZERO impulse control.

The "US allies in the region" are NOT going to expose themselves by becoming embroiled in a forever war that the IMPOTUS is going to LOSE BADLY!

It is doubtful that they will even pay lip service to being his "allies".

Erdogan has way too much to LOSE and nothing of any significant value to gain by having yet another war on his borders so Turkey is OUT!

Saudi Arabia and the rest of the MS states will follow the lead of the rest of the NATO allies and decline to engage in an American "War of Aggression" against a neighboring state just as they did when the Bush/Cheney regime illegally invaded Iraq.

So you are wrong about the OP as well!

Strike 2!

 

You obviously have not studied the centuries of hatred between the Sunni and Shiia factions in the ME and how they impact the decisions of various leaders but thanks for establishing that I was correct that you have not bothered to update yourself on the relevant subject matter.

 

We have not gone to war.

That had nothing to do with Trump.

Congressional appraval is not required to stop a terrorist act.

 

Your predictable kneejerk responses duly noted and ignored the same reasons stated in a prior post.

Have a nice day!

 

It is a mistake to treat Trump as if he is a permanent fixture of ME politics, he is not. Like all US Presidents and other Western elected officials he will pass. Doesn't matter if its in 12 months time or 4 years after that. From the perspective of the entrenched familial power blocks that run the ME for generations Trump and all US Presidents are temporary figureheads, the public face of the economic and military power base that the US actually represents to them. Presidents come and go. As long as all other the major power blocks in the US (think Congress, the Senate, Defense industries, finance and banking etc) continue to see more on the 'plus' side of the ledger in supporting the various Sunni majority ME counties no real change in the status quo will occur.

 

Other than Saudi Arabia, an Absolute Monarchy under Sharia Law, that spawn and fund terrorist all over the world, and Israel whose leader needs a distraction before going to jail, what other countries in the region will assist the US in its illegal efforts against Iran? I think you need to be more worried about the countries that will assist Iran, in its efforts against the US. I also think it is more disconcerting the number of American allies, that will NOT help the US in stealing another country's resources. Is there some latent message here?

Do you really think that the US is a friend of Saudi Arabia, simply because they enjoy a friendly and productive relationship? In 1974, during the US petrol and economic crisis, Nixon sent a team to SA to broker a petrol dollar deal, where failure was NOT an option. If SA would only use US dollars to trade in all petrol export in OPEC, the US would protect them, arm them, and provide them with critical intel. By buying oil in US dollars, gives the US the leverage to sanction other countries. All countries must first buy US dollars, before they can buy any oil. Since the US dollar is no longer on the gold standard, it's value is being artificially attached to the cost of petrol. Russia, China, Venezuela, and many European countries, want the currency to change to renminbi, rubles, or euros. Because the US makes it so difficult for countries to purchase US dollars. All countries that refuse US access to its resources, or do not trade oil in US dollars, are sanctioned or attacked. If SA decided not to trade oil in US dollars, think of the Great Depression, but a 100 times worse. So yes, we will do what WE are told or else. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...behind-saudi-arabia-s-41-year-u-s-debt-secret

We also have NO formal defence treaty with Israel. They are NOT our defence ally. Why we would want to ally ourselves with a country that commits more human rights violations, than Mugabe and Idi Amin put together?

Pimping out US lives in the service of these two countries is just insane, and a betrayal of everything that our soldiers stand for. I really wish that Trump supporters would put their courage where their loyalty lies. Instead of seeking the attention, afforded to them by creating a false narrative against the obvious truth. They should go fight those Islamic terrorist, that on average have taken the lives of 5(out of 330M) people per year, since 911. Maybe we should start attacking ladders, that kill 300 people per year? Lets not begin to speak about our own homegrown terrorist, that are much more dangerous.

 

Some folks sure have a short memory. They, the Iraqi Parliament, begged us to come back when ISIS showed up on their door step kicking their butts. As the saying goes politics makes strange bed fellows and they don't get any stranger than in the Middle East.

 

Iran won't and no one rational would believe them if they did