Evidence for The Creator: Entropy

Where did I say that, you seem to hear things that were never said

do our bodies get better with time? after one dies, will the particles that make their body change, will they be better? worse? or just different?

matter changes with time, a sun explodes, later part of it may be part of a planet like earth, with time that will change too... is matter always becoming better as it changes?

do God's poof into existence from nothing, all powerful and all knowing, or do they need an intelligent designer?

 

I will also point out the mathematical possibility that, even though the universe could be infinite in time, it is constantly in transition from a state of more order to a state of less order. However, even this is somewhat of an argument for intelligent creation, since the chances that we would find ourselves in the exact time where enough order still exists for life to be possible are very slim, especially considering the presumable infinite timeline of the universe.
Another issue is that there must come a point in time when further order is simply not possible, because everything is so well ordered. This could potentially set a 'beginning point' in time.

I don't believe in this, but I'm just saying if you believe the Second Law of Thermodynamics is permanent and invariably holds on large scales, this is the inevitable conclusion one must arrive at.

 

Did you get that from Werner Erhard?....EST??? I thought so.

 

Well, it's the only one of the two that actually exists even if you don't believe in it.

 

Current evidence suggests entropy will continue until not even atoms exist - and time itself would have no meaning. I think that's an end, not a beginning.

Also, the "exact order" idea seems weak in that there has been enough energy for more than 10 billion years and it appears that will continue for billions more years. Given that life on Earth started about 1 billion years after Earth formed, Plus, there is no evidence that the initial expansion of this universe is all there is out there.

 

It's awesome and fun to watch you stew in your own wisdom!

 

Everything I've said comes from experts in this executive branch and experts in my own state.

 

I sort of believe that when everything gets converted to energy, there will be a giant spontaneous "reset".

 

No, it comes from the proven First Law of Thermodynamics.

 

No, I was talking about "what is is" The law you mention does not do away with an intelligent Creator. That is your decision.

 

That's not how entropy works.

First, remember that energy = mass = energy. Entropy does NOT mean that one is changing to the other.

Since this universe is expanding, it's density is decreasing. It's cooling off.

The end zone is where mass and energy are spread throughout a volume so large that mass no longer exists and energy has dispersed. We'll be a 0 degree infinity of nothing.

Again, science doesn't have evidence that what we call our universe is all there is. But, they do see this universe expanding at an increasing rate with no reason to suggest it will stop expanding - thus leading to a cold death.

 

That law isn't actually proven. One can't prove laws.

Also, I think one has to be careful about how one applies laws of thermodynamics to our expanding universe.

 

Seriously? It is the Common Ancestry Believers (CABs), who are screaming, 'Liar!', so your criticism is toward your own groupthink loyalists.

'Deflect with irrelevant accusations if you wish. You still have no mechanism or process for overcoming entropy, in the universe. Whether the fantasies of abiogenesis, or big bang cosmology, or universal common ancestry, entropy makes those beliefs impossible.'

ALL of the sacred tenets of faith needed by atheistic naturalism are debunked by the simple observation of ENTROPY. Increasing complexity? In a universe 'winding down', and dissipating? What 'wound up!', the universe, so it could 'wind down', as we observe, now?

No, every scientific observation, experiment, and principle known to man SCREAMS 'Creator!' It is only progressive propaganda and Indoctrination that has deceived so many into denying the most obvious fact in the universe:

The universe was created by an Intelligent Designer.

So you believe, 'Nuthindidit!'
.. and defend/promote those beliefs with jihadist zeal.

It is nothing but religious bigotry to demean and attack the beliefs of others, when your own are philosophically the same.

I replied to this post:

,
Where you made assertions of first hand knowledge of cosmological origins.

You have no possible way of 'knowing' if matter did or did not exist.

The assumption of the big bang is that of cosmic inflation, where the entire universe was compressed into a particle, then expanded trillions fold, in 'trillions of a trillionth' of a second. That particle has no resemblance to all the matter we observe, and cannot be construed to self exist for all eternity past, waiting for the right moment to explode in a 'big bang!'

Your mocking and ridicule only exposes the pseudoscience pretension of progressive indoctrinees.

'Deflect with irrelevant accusations if you wish. You still have no mechanism or process for overcoming entropy, in the universe. Whether the fantasies of abiogenesis, or big bang cosmology, or universal common ancestry, entropy makes those beliefs impossible.'

1. Ad hominem is a poor substitute for reason. My 'understanding!', is not the topic, but Entropy, and a mechanism to overcome it, through atheistic naturalism. The Creation model explains entropy, cosmology, and the beginnings of life very well, and is congruent with the facts. Atheistic naturalism has no mechanism to overcome entropy, to either create life (abiogenesis), increase complexity (universal common ancestry), or cosmic origins (big bang). The obvious HUGE problem of Entropy, as a dissipating force in the universe, is ignored, for some magical, wishful thinking process, that is not defined, observed, or subject to scientific inquiry.
2. Definitional dodges denotes desperation. Equivocation with the term 'entropy', and narrowly defining it in a thermodynamics context does not refute the common, obvious definition of the term as a dissipating principle that is moving EVERYTHING to randomness and disorder.

It is the pseudoscience pretension of atheistic naturalism, and the bully pulpit of intimidation and religious bigotry that is evidenced here, not scientific methodology.

That CABs seem to LOVE fallacies, personal attacks, equivocation, and ANYTHING but sound scientific methodology, exemplifies the religious nature of atheistic naturalism, and the core tenets of faith, that are clung to with jihadist zeal.

If everything is 'winding down!', then what (or Who) 'wound it up!'?

My argument is that entropy (and other facts of science) would have prohibited this 'ordering' process at the beginning (which is a meaningless assumption in atheistic naturalism.. beginning? How?).

Positing atheistic naturalism for cosmic origins, and the spontaneous beginning of life (abiogenesis), ignores the HUGE hurdle of entropy. In a cold, dead, random universe of lifeless entropy, there is NOTHING to order or arrange the universe into a setting conducive for life.

Only an Intelligent Force could have brought order to chaos, complexity to dissipation, and life to non life.

 

1. You gave no 'unassailable example!', just asserted your belief, with no facts, reason, or science.
2. Doubling Down on the 'Liar!!' meme is a fallacy.. it is a false accusation, and a 'comic book villain' fallacy.
3. Your simplistic fantasy of 'atoms spontaneously ordering themselves!' cannot and does not happen. Order can only come by intelligent application of work. Changes of state, or chemical reactions are subject to entropy, just like everything else.
4. Denying indoctrination, but refusing to consider facts and science is clear evidence of Indoctrination. Clinging to dogma, and denying scientific evidence is religious confirmation bias, not scientific inquiry.

I was being kind, saying you implied some magical force to overcome entropy, in the atheistic naturalism model. You asserted it, dogmatically, with no facts or scientific basis, AT ALL.

Your belief in atomic non entropy is just another fantasy. The universe is under the overriding principle of entropy, and cannot escape it. Neither the cosmic nor sub atomic levels are immune from the dissipating effects of entropy.

Wishful thinking, pretending to be science..

Energy would have dissipated into cold, disordered equilibrium, EONS ago, and has no explanation for origins. If you cannot grasp a Creator with no beginnings, how do you posit energy, with no beginnings?

Well said. The Elephant in the room, in any debate about cosmology or abiogenesis, is entropy. WHAT, (or Who) overcame this undeniable force in the universe, and made order from non order? Life from non life?

Chaos, randomness, and disorder is the overriding, UNIVERSAL principle, that ALL physical laws abide by. Without an ordering, intelligent Force, there is no way we could observe the order and complexity before us.

The model of Intelligent Design fits much better, with observable reality, than the model of atheistic naturalism. It is only the constant pounding of propaganda and progressive Indoctrination that drives people to deny and ignore the obvious, for some religious fantasy of godless naturalism.

 

Your ABJECT FAILURE to even attempt to address the other Laws of Thermodynamics EXPOSES your theist bovine excrement!

 

'Deflect with irrelevant accusations if you wish. You still have no mechanism or process for overcoming entropy, in the universe. Whether the fantasies of abiogenesis, or big bang cosmology, or universal common ancestry, entropy makes those beliefs impossible.'

Ridiculing caricatures of the competition is not a 'rational rebuttal!!', nor is ad hom a substitute for reason..

..except in Progresso World..

 

Your ONGOING FAILURES are NOT my problem.

 

Entropy only applies to our universe with space and time. We aren't actually sure what caused the big bang or created the initial energy in the universe but they must have come from something other than our universe and therefore entropy doesn't apply.

 

I know.. it's in the first paragraph of the Bible. You are correct in that "must have come from something other than our universe'. "God said" is a clue... caused the vibrations that make up matter (mass doesn't exist without atomic vibrations) We and the universe are just a figment of God's imagination.. and that's very powerful.

 

I gave up house cleaning realizing it was just a "War on Entropy".
Fruitless.
Entropy wins every time!


Moi

STOP ​

 

Nonsense.

There has been PLENTY of energy around for 10 billion years and physicists show that will continue for many more billions of years.

Your concern about engropy concerns the average of some system. But, it does NOT mean that existing energy will be spread evenly. As we see, we have many trillions of stars, each with PLENTY of energy to drive local events, REGARDLESS of the fact that the universe as a whole is expanding.

 

I've seen atheists post nonsense like that. Damned if I know why a theist would.

 

It does away with the lie that the nothing creator created everything from nothing. It shows there was never nothing and never will be nothing but there always was energy!

 

It was PROVEN by James Scott Joule with a REPEATABLE experiment that has been repeated in schools by physicists worldwide.

 

I gave you the example of the atom. Again if entropy affected the negatively charged electron, it would not be able to maintain its orbit around the positively charged nucleus and would be drawn in splitting it and no matter could exist.
But matter does exist therefore the electron is NOT undergoing entropy.