Hiroshima at 75: bitter row persists over US decision to drop the bomb

Demonstrates that while an idea can sound great and prove operational under controlled conditions- it always a good idea to consider if those condition will be allowed to exist by your enemies.
Field application IS the real test; and you make a good example of that point.
Kind of reminds me of the cop situation. Easy to criticize after the fact and decide what might have been a better choice- NOT so easy to do when choices must be made in a split second in the midst of total chaos.But then, we have an overload of armchair experts these days....

 

You're right. I don't watch the FOX gang. My view of Trump and supporters comes from what I read at this forum.
I believe the Trumpists here are no less accurate than FOX people and perhaps much of the info used by Trumpians here, comes from
FOX sources anyway. From what I've heard here....
(1) Trumpists aren't concerned about lies coming from WH...as long as they come from Trump or Trump appointees.
(2) News article...."Trump plans to sign an executive order to extend enhanced unemployment benefits." Trump people here don't agree with that...
yet they make it clear they will vote for him anyway.
(3)Try asking a Trumpist if there is anything what-so-ever that Trump could do that would cause them not to vote for him.
(4) Trumpians sing his praises for all the great things he's done for this country...really? Got a link?
(5) In Trump's view, if his appointees break the law, it is not a problem (nor do his supporters see it as a problem) in fact, they are more likely to get hired.
(6) In the eyes of Trump and Trumpists, a Trump appointee can do no wrong...except to disagree with Trump. Then they are destroyed.
This list is already too long. Trump is a dangerous human, but only because his followers cheer him on.

 

Truth...but who will listen

 

How "mean" would the Japanese people be to two of my Uncles who were poised to invade...er..."liberate" Japan back in '45 or '46?

 

Problem is your view is as biases against Trump as you say his followers are for him.

For example- enhanced unemployment benefits. Like it or not, people are in massive financial difficulties- which are just now beginning to sink home. We will have no choice but to use federal money to keep our system from falling apart. I support that. At the same time, there is discussion of making adjustments to delay with holdings, which would create a growing time bomb. I don't support that.

Most everything the left wants to do depends on doing things to others. Taking things from others. Growing up, becoming a mature adult means you quit looking for a full teat and take care of yourself.
This concept- that of each of us carrying our own load, or expecting society to do it for us- in my mind is the basic definition between left and right. I was raised to never be a burden to any other man, and in nearly 80 years- I've not taken so much as an unemployment check, and I have been dirt poor, busted, needing cancer surgery without insurance..... and still paid my own way. I've never been handcuffed or arrested for anything, never charged with more than a basic traffic ticket. How is it possible for a person do end up doing well without sucking life blood out of someone else? That is part of the void in understanding between left and right today. They don't know how- and they don't want to know how.

Somehow, I find nothing wrong with the idea of supporting the values that has made America the greatest nation in the world- and the one where more people wanted to come to live than any other.
Certainly not perfect; always a work in progress- but also the best ever done. Thus the MAGA motto makes perfectly good sense to me. Follow what has worked. Be responsible for yourself- all of us, individually, to improve it again and again. The only way to improve the nation is to improve the people- their strength, their character and moral compass, their love of country, their respect for history and those who have brought it this far. Resolve the nations problems, make it better. Leave the nation to the next generation in the best condition we can- and they should be prepared to continue the work
I realize those are ugly thoughts for a lot of today's liberals- but if they have nothing better or at least even close to that in value...... no opinions or ideas they may have will matter much to me.

I'm prejudice in favor of making the nation the best it can be- for everyone....... But there is not and never has been anything free. I understand that. The top democrats do to, they just lie to their followers to take advantage of them by promising it. Hard for me to respect such people- they have to be intentional liars, or really, really stupid. Neither is fit for office.
Trump certainly isn't perfect- but he does get results, and they would be 5 times better if he wasn't dealing with the dumbest, least patriotic dem congress in history.

 

These are the only outstanding Trump results I could find....
US tops 5 million coronavirus cases, continues to lead world in infections and deaths
https://www.foxnews.com/health/us-coronavirus-cases-infections-5-million

 

And of course, you tried really hard. That is part of our problem in communications- selective blindness on the left.
You missed, just off the top of my head, thing like Trumps record market breaking gains, returns of American companies who had moved off shore, best unemployment ever for all races of people- just little stuff, I know. but makes a difference to those who want to vote for improvement rather than endless tantrums.

Rasmussun reported early on that his record of accomplishments was "shockingly long". Missed that too I'm sure, MSM would have never mentioned anything like that out of fear you might take notice of actual results.

 

But at least I got the info from FOX News...gotta give me some credit

 

Doesn't that assume you believe Chinese reports of how many cases and how many deaths they've had there?

 

Who are we to question FOX News.....

 

News is sadly highly questionable these days, as are governments. But virus figures are also relevant to population size and cultural integrations (meaning interactions of large amounts of people as opposed to few).
I have no doubt China numbers can't be trusted. I know there business ethics certainly can't and I'm sure the government is worse.
Personally, I feel pretty confident in the virus source was their Viral research lab; that is by far the most logical conclusion, and their lack of credibility discards any value of denials. I have no idea if they developed it or were studying it, but I'd sure make a bet that is the point it became a human issue.

 

~ Yes - exactly what we see today. Same with the A-bomb. Eisenhower had his opinion, and so did others. In the end a decision was made and that is the best we can do.
China made a decision to allow a deadly virus lose on innocent unsuspecting nations. Another kind of war may be about to unfold. Decisions will have to be made. People will criticize no matter what.

 

It is indisputable it shorten the war and saved millions of live all the conspiracy and historically ignorant assertion notwithstanding.

 

Actually we didn't have another bomb ready to go because it still took a huge effort to get the plutonium. It was one of the concerns if the Nagasaki bomb did not drive the Japanese to surrender. I'm sure there were lots of rumors going around on Tinian.

 

1. You bet it did! What people don't realise is that it was more a psychological effect than a physical one, it allowed the Japs to surrender and still save face. The greatest ever justification for dropping the first A-bomb is that it was still necessary to drop the second.

2. Darn right and well worth it, keep Stalin in line and keep most of Europe free.

 

-Some- people believe, after a year of endless bombing of Japanese cities and torpedoing of Japanese shipping, the Soviet invasion of occupied Manchuria, not the instant destruction of 2 Japanese cities by a single aircraft, finally forced the Japanese to capitulate.
Not sure why, but they do.

 

Yep the US has been the only country to engage in war and it was all because we were the aggressor trying to take over all those countries to put them under our rule........................NOT.

 

It was the Emperor and because of the bombs and the destruction he saw which he knew he could not stop. He did it for the Japanese people to save millions of lives.

 

Indeed.

 

Both the cities were transportation and communications hubs and like all other Japanese cities were manufacturing war goods. The bombs saved MILLIONS of lives and that is indisputable.

 

They have a point but not the one most people think. The Soviet invasion mattered to the Japanese because when it happened they realized that they couldn't negotiate a peace deal thru the Soviets. Basically the Japanese were hoping that by threatening to make a separate deal with the Soviets that they could extract favorable terms from the Americans.

 

In a sense, the atomic bombings allowed Hirohito to surrender to the U.S. with at least some shred of personal honor (for himself) and national honor (for Japan) still intact. Because he could argue (look at what he said in the surrender address) that the Japanese were giving up because the U.S. possessed an all powerful superweapon and NOT because the Japanese emperor, military, or people had failed in any way.

 

LOL@Bitter Row

Nobody is mad.

 

But even then... the willingness and capacity to instantly vaporize Japanese cities should have told them all they needed to know.

 

~ I have not done any research on this - but always thought both drops were planned together. Interesting to think the second was actually felt "necessary" and not actually planned from the beginning.
Now I must learn more ...