Minneapolis officer's attorney alleges George Floyd overdosed on fentanyl, says charges should be dr

Yea it is he already had enough drugs in him to kill him and was a dead man while he was sitting in the car complaining he could not breath. Classic OD on top of an already existing heart condition and COVID. Cardiopulmonary arrest.

 

And she is entirely accurate.

 

Oh okay, I guess you don't need to provide the quote from the medical examiner, you apparently performed your own autopsy

 

You are free to read his full report and then the notes. I have already cite the salient parts from the just released documents which you have failed to refute. He was a dead man before he was on the ground, he had lethal doses of drugs in his system, he suffered from heart disease, he was positive for COVID, his lungs had swelled to two to three times their normal weight from the fluid that was accumulating, classic fentanyl OD AND cardiopulmonary arrest signs.

What in what I just posted are you denying?

 

Again that is not accurate, for one the document that you are referring to is NOT from the autopsy, secondly, it does not say what you claim it says, not even close

But if you still believe otherwise, then feel free to provide the direct quote

I have no problem providing the direct quote from the autopsy

Now please, provide the direct quote from the document you are referring to that says that he overdosed, or that he would have died on his own without the compression that was applied to his neck

 

It's entirely accurate, he caused his own death, he would have died had he never been on the ground.

Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest

 

Cardio = heart
Pulmonary = lung

Nowhere does the autopsy say that this cardiopulmonary arrest was self inflicted, or that he OD’d. If it did then you would have a direct quote to refer to that says that, but you don’t have one, because the autopsy doesn’t say either of those things. The autopsy does however list restraint and neck compression as the cause

 

He had a lethal dose fentanyl, he had meth, he had previous heart condition, he was positive for COVID and then fought with the police leading to his cardiopulmonary arrest ALL acts for which he was responsible.

List where the autopsy says it was just the alleged neck compression, no physical evidence, was the cause of death. Explain how this alleged neck compression cause his lungs to swell and the shortness of breath, cardiopulmonary, he was already experiencing before he was even on the ground.

 

If it's instantaneous then the fact that he wasn't dead before he hit the ground suggests that he had not taken such dose, recently.

 

So a few things to note


1. Although George Floyd tested positive for COVID, medical analysis indicate that he was asymptomatic, and there was no preexisting damage to his lungs. The autopsy does not list COVID as the cause for his cardiopulmonary arrest.

2. What is considered a "lethal dose" of fentanyl is relative to the subject's body, similar to how people have difference levels of tolerance for alcohol. There isn't a universal number for what is considered a lethal dosage, according to research on fentanyl usage, what is considered a lethal amount ranges between 0.75 ng/ml and 113.00 ng/ml. The level of fentanyl in George Floyd's bloodstream was 11 ng/ml, which would be around the average of what is considered a toxic amount, however the average adult weight around 140 pounds, George Floyd was 6'4 and weighed 223 pounds, but more importantly the autopsy does not list fentanyl as the cause for his cardiopulmonary arrest

3. In regards to your question "Explain how this alleged neck compression cause his lungs to swell and the shortness of breath". That's actually a very simple thing to explain. When the heart's ability to pump blood/oxygen cells to the brain are impeded, the subject would most definitely experience shortness of breath. Furthermore, the autopsy doesn't just list neck compression as the cause of death, but also lists the restraint that was put on his body as well. In other words, the pressure that was put on his body, and the pressure that was put on his neck caused his cardiopulmonary arrest, according to the autopsy. What is not listed as a cause of death however is fentanyl

4. In regards to what the autopsy listed as not being the cause of death. That's not how autopsies are conducted, they are not practiced in a manner of proving a negatives. They list the things that were the cause of death, they do not list the things that were not the cause of death. Let me put it to you this way, George Floyd didn't die of cancer, if he did then cancer would be listed as one of the causes of death... and it's that simple, they lists the causes of death, they do not list the things that were not the cause of death. That's kind of a silly notion to be honest. So in regards to your request to "List where the autopsy says it was just the alleged neck compression"

All there is that I can refer you to are the things that are listed as the cause of death. Plain and simple, drug overdose is not listed as a cause of death, furthermore there were no signs uncovered in the autopsy to suggest that the amount of fentanyl found in his body caused an overdose to occur. Now there are other contributing factors to his death, and these other factors would be listed under "Other significant conditions" however, the notion that George Floyd would have died on his own without the stress that was put on his body and neck does not come from any medical experts who examined the case. Period

 

Interesting. Very interesting.

 

He was positive for and the bodies response to COVID causes damage to the lungs. One of the things doctors are finding is that even young persons will have long term effects.

Toxic amount as has already been noted and a contributor.

His shortness of breath and cardiopulmonary struggle began long before he was even on the ground and before any knee.

All the contributing factors and we have the video's of him experiencing a cardiopulmonary event BEFORE he was on the ground.

He was overdosing and his body was reacting to it, that along with his severe heart disease and the meth and the COVID...................do you know what is require to get a murder conviction? Beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the alleged neck compression that killed him. The defense will blow that out of the water, he was dying before he hit the ground.

 

You clearly didn't bother reading the autopsy. Again, he was asymptomatic, but more importantly the autopsy does not show any preexisting damage to the lungs. As stated in the autopsy "Sections of right and left lung show generally normal overall architecture, without malignancy, pneumonia, granulomatous inflammation, or polarizable intravascular foreign material"

In short, there was no damage to his lungs, although he did test positive for the virus, he was asymptomatic. You can carry the virus without being sick, in fact in most cases people spread the virus while they are asymptomatic

toxic =/= fetal

People consume toxins all the time in measures that are non-lethal. For example, alcohol is a toxin, but more importantly what we are talking about here is whether or not fentanyl was the cause of Floyd's cardiopulminary arrest. We know from the autopsy that it was not, there were no medical signs found to suggest the amount of fentanyl in his system caused an overdose to occur

I'm not sure what you think cardiopulminary arrest is, but one would not be able to maintain consciousness for more than 40 seconds after experiencing cardiopulminary arrest. We know for a fact that Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest did not start before he was on the ground, and again, I cannot stress this enough, but the conclusion of the medical examiner was that it was the stress put on his body and neck by the officers that caused his cardiopulminary arrest. This isn't my opinion, those are the official results of the medical examiner's autopsy on George Floyd

I think what's most telling about your claims that an overdose occurred is your complete inability to provide a direct quote from any medical source relevant to the case. It is clear that you believe that he overdosed, however any attempts to present this notion as coming from any relevant medical source is both disingenuous and untruthful.

 

I think it is most telling you ignore ALL the complications he was suffering including that he was going into cardiopulmonary arrest while sitting in the car. Including the LETHAL dose of fentanyl and the meth and he existing serious heart disease and that as the doctors notes showed had he simply been found sitting in his home his death would have been ruled a drug overdose. He was NOT strangled and did not die because of a lack of blood flow to his brain. He died because he went into a cardiopulmonary arrest, his heart and lungs failed to replenish the oxygen to his blood stream and thus what he experienced as shortness of breath, BEFORE he was on the ground. CP arrest is NOT a heart attack, it is NOT a sudden immediate death it occurs as the body loses the abiltity to pump the blood efficiently throught the lungs and through the body and oxygen level decreases and the CO2 level increases to the point of death. The police did NOT cause that to happen.

 

What is your medical source that concludes he was going into cardiopulmonary arrest while in the car?

That is not accurate, what the doctor said was an overdose would only be an appropriate conclusion if there were no other apparent causes, and he was found alone. However, there were other apparent causes, and those apparent causes were a drug overdose. It is also important to note that the medical examiner said this when being interviewed by investigators, and that he also noted that he does not believe that an overdose occurred

Once again the autopsy says the cause of death was "CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION"

That is not what cardiopulimnary arrest is..... cardiopuliminary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow due to the heart's ability to pump blood to the body's vital organs. The organ that is most quickly effected by this is the brain, the subject is expected to lose consciousness within 40 seconds of cardiopulmonary arrest. While lack of oxygen and heightened co2 could potentially cause cardiopulminary arrest, it is not in itself what cardiopulminary arrest is, so it would actually go the other way around (lack of oxygen AND THEN cardiopulminary arrest). When one experiences cardiopulminary arrest, CPR is supposed to be performed immediately, this is especially true for police officers when one experiences cardiopuliminary arrest while in their custody. You definitely aren't supposed to apply stress to the body and neck for 3 minutes after the person loses consciousness

However, what is more important is what caused Goerge Floyd to experience cardiopulmonary arrest. According to the medical examiner it was the stress that was put on Floyd's body and neck by the officers... but lets say he was experiencing cardiopuliminary arrest before he was on the ground, it would then be the duty of the officers to act as first responders. Applying stress to the subject's neck and body during cardiopuliminary arrest would be an example of extreme negligence, to the point of potentially being criminal

 

"I can't breath"

And there were other contributors to that which yes killed him even quicker, he was a dead man before he hit the ground.

Which began before he hit the ground, while he was sitting in the car.

As I said and stop confusing words I didn't say the lack of CO2 CAUSED the cardiopulmonary arrest, you got it assbackwards. The drugs in his system, the fighting with the police, the existing severe heart disease all brought on the cardiopulmonary arrest he was experiencing BEFORE he hit the ground, while he was sitting in the car with no one touching him.

 

Well I think therein lies the source of confusion, cardiopulmonary arrest is not shortness of breath. Cardiopulminary arrest is a sudden loss of blood flow due to the heart's ability to pump blood to the body's vital organs. When cardiopulmonary arrest occurs, one cannot maintain consciousness for anymore than a matter of seconds. We know with certainty that Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest did not begin when he was on his feet.

You are partially correct in assessing that there were other contributing factors, however the notion that he was dead before hitting the ground is clearly inaccurate

Again, what you described was shortness of breath, shortness of breath in itself is not cardiopulmonary arrest, but it may lead to cardiopulmonary arrest under severe circumstances. It is imperative to understand what cardiopulmonary arrest actually in concluding whether or not it could have been prevented.

Well if you did say it caused his cardiopulmonary arrest, you actually would have been a tad closer to being accurate in your description.. but of course what you said instead was that Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest began while he was on his feet. Cardiopulmonary arrest is not shortness of breath, but shortness of breath can potentially lead to cardiopulmonary arrest under extreme circumstances. It's one thing to argue that there are multiple contributing factors to George Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest, however the notion that George Floyd would have gone into cardiopulmonary arrest on his own without the stress that was put on his body and neck does not come from any medical source that is relevant to the case

Every medical expert who has examined the case has concluded that the stress put on the body and neck by the officers was the cause of death. Again this is not my opinion, this is the opinion of every medical expert who has been hired to examine the case

 

I'm willing to speculate the high drug dose, in combination with the excitement/panic of the law enforcement interaction, combined with a little restriction in his ability to breathe, may have done him in.

There could easily be multiple different factors here, and it might not have taken much to push him over the edge.

If he had the coronavirus, which postmortem tests seem to indicate he had, that could have been one more factor.

If you're on drugs and you cut the oxygen supply, and then you're in a physical altercation with police, getting very physical and with adrenaline levels pumping, that could easily result in a fatal heart attack.

 

A feeling of shortness of breath when he was actually breathing is a classic sympthom. GEEZ.....

And no "every expert" has not said it was stress on the neck. The defense will have a field day with the autopsy report and the notes from it.

The failure leading to the arrest is not sudden he didn't have a heart attack.

It does not require stress on the neck to induce CP failure and arrest.

He was a dead man before he was on the ground and the defense will will go way beyond the beyond reasonable doubt as to the cause of death.

 

Hmm... so the literalist approach. Perhaps wait until the issue is argued in court before you cast your lot on the losing side. The larger question here is why do you suppose that folks reacted so poorly to this incident? Just because there was video that couldn't account for all of the causalities? As for the ME, in the notes of the autopsy, there was sufficient toxicological finding that his body had more than enough fentanyl in his system to kill him. Do you have evidence that this isn't the case? Cite a credible source, and not just your feelz.

And just like "hands up, don't shoot" you fell for a lie because it's what you wanted to believe. Absence of faith has so many ramifications these days.

 

They overcharged the cop to appease the rioters, and that worked out really well didn't it? Now when the cop wins in court because the charges do not fit the situation, more riots. Brilliant democrats DA's brilliant.

 

It appears they called for the medical backup when he bumped his face on the window of the car when they were struggling to get him in the car. They bumped the urgency of the emergency call when Floyd complained of breathing.

Thao: Do you have EMS [Emergency Medical Services] coming code 3?

Lane: Ah code 2, we can probably step it up then. You got it? [crosstalk]


He should have immediately removed his knee when Floyd passed out although he may have been distracted by the shouting from spectators.

Lane: Let’s take him out [of the squad car] and just MRT [Maximal Restraint Technique by which a suspect’s feet are “hobbled” to his waist].

Floyd: I can’t ****ing breathe man. I can’t ****ing breathe.

Kueng: Here. Come on out [of the squad car]!

Floyd: [inaudible] Thank you. Thank you.

Officer Thao: Just lay him on the ground.

Here is a full transcript of the conversation which is quite fascinating.

https://spectator.org/george-floyd-death-toxicology-report/

 

And the defense will present their own medical expert. Should make for a fascinating trial.

 

Cardiopulminary arrest is the complete cessation of effective circulation and ventilation, when one experiences this, they will remain conscious no more than a matter of seconds. Shortness of breath would be a symptom BEFORE one goes into cardiopulmonary arrest. It is imperative to understand this distinction in order to understand whether or not this incident was preventable

Oh really, what is your medical source on all that? Name me one medical expert who actually examined George Floyd who did not say it was the stress put on the body and neck by the officers restraint that was the cause of death. You only have to name one

Didn't say he had a heart attack, in fact back in post 200 of this thread I explained that he did not have a heart attack, heart attacks are called "myocardial infarction" NOT cardiopulmonary arrest

There are many variables that can cause cardiopulmonary arrest, but it is the conclusion of the medical examiner hired by the country that George Floyd's cardiopulmonary arrest was caused by stress put on the body and neck by the officers.

Oh really, what's your medical source on that? please provide a direct quote

 

At this point, no more autopsies can be performed on George Floyd. A medical expert was already hired by the county (the same county that employed the officers) to perform an autopsy. That medical expert's conclusion was the Floyd's death was a homicide. Another medical expert was hired by Floyd's family to perform another autopsy. That medical expert also concluded that Floyd's death was a homicide.

George Floyd's body was buried on June on June 9th of 2020. Preservation of his remains for another autopsy is long past