"A good God wouldn't have a Hell"

Its simple, why would a good god who can create a world without sin, pain or suffering (heaven) need a Hell? You wish to show that Hell is needed as punishment, I wish to show that god does not need that hell.

 

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with these threads.

Trying to discuss complicated and controversial topics never seems to get anywhere.

 

And then suffering would not be needed on earth either, would it? Didn't I already explain this to you?

Since we know there's suffering on earth, then going by your argument, if there is a God it is still very possible that there could also be a Hell.

 

The issue is that they are complicated and controversial issues, and it is impossible to discuss one in isolation from the other issues that affect it. It is not helped by the logical contradictions that are inherent in Christianity and all other religions. The contradiction here is that you wish to show that hell is a requirement for god to serve justice, but the existence of a world without pain, suffering or sin (heaven) contradicts that.

 

The world can be a really shitty place; people can exploit & do terrible damage to others, even outside of prison; most believers in an afterlife expect it to be better than here, or what's the point? But maybe they're wrong, maybe the citizens of heaven lock their doors at night; maybe young souls need to watch out for gymnastics team doctors, and scout leaders, and priests. Maybe there are those who will poison your cloud subdivision, or your cloud-city's drinking-fluid supply to save a few bucks. Who knows?

 

It is also impossible to realistically discuss "all the other issues that affect it" in one thread, and have enough coherence for the discussion to be able to get anywhere.

 

I'm sorry but that seems to be an argument totally based in ignorance (ignorance about the Christian theology you refer to).

It is an interesting argument, however, so I'll be happy to still discuss it with you here.

Your argument now seems to be "There can't be a Hell, because what about all those people in Heaven who don't have to suffer? That's not fair."

Do I basically understand that right?

 

Yes, lets put it this way.

There is pain and suffering on earth.
God can create a world without pain, suffering or sin. (heaven)
Either there is no god or he is not a good god since he chooses to have pain, suffering and sin on earth.

 

Ok lets discuss, is heaven without pain, suffering or sin?

 

So your question is why can't God just bring everyone into heaven.

 

No my question is why did god not create earth like heaven.

 

That is the question of the existence of suffering. That is kind of another issue.

Probably more appropriate for another discussion in another thread.

But I will try to quickly give some sort of answer to you here, even though it is a very deep complicated issue.

First, if everyone on earth was there, it wouldn't be heaven.

There are different reasons for suffering. Some of it human-caused.

Some of the types of suffering on earth, God could flip his finger and it would all instantly disappear; it wouldn't be difficult at all for him to do it. So it must have some purpose. Like creating a testing ground, or shaping human character. Or even just allowing people to question whether there is a God. Because if there were absolutely no problems on Earth, then people would become suspicious and know for sure that there must be some sort of supernatural phenomena going on.

But like I already said, this is another big separate issue you are bringing up.
You can go read things about it in other places.
I just can't get into too much detail about it in this thread with you.

It is definitely not a simple answer that I could just explain in one statement.

 

That would be a world without freewill, and you wouldn't be posting here.

 

So there is no free will in heaven?

 

Why does hell exist if not for the imposing of justice for suffering caused to others?

 

There may be multiple reasons Hell exists.

You are asking some important questions. But a lot of these questions are getting off-topic.
So you'll have to forgive me if I only give you really short answers that may not feel fully adequate you you.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Are you asking why the suffering in hell exists (for what other reasons), or why hell would exist as a physical place?

It's not exactly the same question, so it would help me if you were more specific.

 

To be completely fair, this is a question that Christians have not really fully settled upon.

The only best answer is there will likely be free will in heaven, but it also might be curtailed in ways that it is not on earth.

 

I can give you one reason for that: your lack of clarity, & often confusing way of expressing yourself. Case in point:

(You asked what arguments did I think you might be making, based on your initial post, & then excerpted part of one answer): we should judge God by the same standards as we judge ourselves

Please explain the significant difference between what you just quoted, which you emphatically, "did not say," & your explanation of what you DID say.

 

Hell is gods way of imposing justice on those who have caused suffering to others, is that not what you say in the OP and why if you were god you would create hell?

 

Yes, that is the main reason. Although it is more complicated than that. And there may be other reasons.

 

Right, and you also admit that it is likely there is free will in heaven although it may be curtailed in some way?

 

It seems what you are trying to argue here is a little counterproductive.
We know there would be a "screening process" (for lack of better words) to get into heaven, and on top of that, people's personalities will likely be shaped before they go to heaven, and even after they go there.
Yet then it seemed you were also trying to argue that how can some people go to hell when other people get to go to heaven.
So your two different arguments here seem to be kind of counterproductive against each other.

You're saying how can god make things good if people in heaven have a free will,
and at the same time you're saying why can't god make hell/earth good if things in heaven are good.

 

So if you were god would you not operate your "screening process" and "shape personalities" on earth rather than result to Hell?

 

I am merely pointing out the logical contradictions that exist in Christianity, you say that if you were god then you would have a hell to impose justice on those who bring pain, suffering and sin. At the same time you admit that a god could of created a world with "shaped personalities" and "screening" where pain suffering and sin did not exist and still maintained free will. Indeed god did create such a world it is called heaven.

The contradiction and counterproductive argument is all Christianities.