About the Holocaust

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by stan1990, Mar 11, 2019.

?

Do you agree with the thoughts expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Maybe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I appreciate your response Grau.
     
    Grau likes this.
  2. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6,149
    Likes Received:
    2,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    These self-proclaimed "analysts" from VHO are simply Holocaust deniers. That's what I meant before as I said to be careful with such texts. The VHO guys aren't verity seekers. They're professional liars who want to distort history and make the Nazis look nice.

    Eisenhower would probably be able to answer this question himself if he were still alive. I think anything he didn't mention was of little relevance to him.
     
  3. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    6,149
    Likes Received:
    2,857
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    WTF is this sh*t, LOL :D
     
  4. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    7,114
    Likes Received:
    1,192
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Here I came upon an interesting story:

    Esther Bejarano: Auschwitz orchestra member dies
    [​IMG]
    Esther Bejarano, one of the last survivors of an orchestra formed in the Auschwitz death camp, has died aged 96.
    She died at a Jewish hospital in the German city of Hamburg on Saturday.

    Bejarano's sister and parents were killed by the Nazis. She was sent to Auschwitz when she was 18 and was forced into hard labour, carrying heavy stones.
    But one day she discovered that SS guards were looking for an accordion player to join the camp's orchestra. Despite not knowing how to play the instrument, she volunteered.

    She recalled the Auschwitz Women's Orchestra having to play to new arrivals.

    "You knew they were going to be gassed, and all you could do was stand there and play," she told Deutsche Welle in 2014.

    She dedicated the rest of her life to educating people about the Holocaust and fighting xenophobia.

    German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said, Bejarano was an important voice in the fight against racism and anti-Semitism.

    Bejarano co-founded the International Auschwitz Committee and delivered speeches to schools about her life.
    "It is my revenge that I go to the schools, that I tell people what happened back then. So that nothing like that can ever happen again," she once said.

    Read full text here:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57791259
    ------
    Amazing! She is only 10 years my senior! She still looks pretty good and healthy. I love accordion music!

    It is my earnest hope that she has also been an honest and upright woman and has told the after-world the truth!
    May she rest in peace.
     
  5. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You have a foregone conclusion. You're not using the scientific method. It's good that you don't have a naive willingness to believe, but you have an a priori incredulity which is no less fallacious.

    Have you seen all of this?

    Auschwitz Why The Gas Chambers Are A Myth HD
    https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWhyTheGasChambersAreAMythHD

    One Third of the Holocaust - 1 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-35&sk=&cvid=742DED5B37024E9F9CD7831D30CDD361

    One Third of the Holocaust - 2 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-35&sk=&cvid=379CA4ED9F1F4B95B86FFEDAA4C7CAF4

    One Third of the Holocaust - 3 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-35&sk=&cvid=C605421C458D49C192F3E59DBEF089F8

    One Third of the Holocaust - 4 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-35&sk=&cvid=4F1CF8C5991A4CF3A221E08D1DE20F6E

    One Third of the Holocaust - 5 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-35&sk=&cvid=263CBE84E1F64793B415272FAD2B75E0

    Buchenwald - A Dumb Dumb Portrayal Of Evil
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=BUCHENWALD+A+Dumb+Dumb+Portrayal+Of+Evil+

    Judea Declares War on Germany 1933
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...Judea+Declares+War+on+Germany%22+&FORM=HDRSC3

    Entrevista Mark Weber e David Cole no The Montel Williams Show
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-61&sk=&cvid=AF30B512B1F5494AAD3F167A2732F54F

    1995 - Holocaust-Debate - Mark Weber vs. Michael Shermer (EN, 1h 55m, 320x240)
    https://archive.org/details/1995-Holocaust-Debate

    Cristian Iturralde entrevista a Ernst Zundel


    El mayor secreto del siglo XX


    Germar Rudolf, interview by Jim Rizoli, Nov. 7, 2015
    https://www.altcensored.com/watch?v=LYAKGnFPZyQ

    Jim Rizoli, Robert Faurisson interview October 2015
    https://www.altcensored.com/watch?v=k2PUtZT04UQ

    Hidden Truth PH
    https://www.facebook.com/HiddenTrut...ths-of-the-jews-themselvesho/767144170144823/

    Nicholas Kollerstrom – ‘Breaking the Codes – Breaking the Spell’ [Full Episode]
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Breaking+The+Spell+(of+the+Holocaust)+with+Dr+Nick+Kollerstrom&FORM=HDRSC3

    BISHOP TELLS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/CkLoELneg3PL/

    Proving The Truth Behind The Holocaust


    How To Survive The Holocaust
    http://brothernathanaelchannel.com/watch_video.php?v=5RMDRYX27UAA

    The ’Holocaust Denial’ Debate
    http://brothernathanaelchannel.com/watch_video.php?v=4X3B9611G164
     
  6. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    WHY ANYONE, after 3 years of this denialist drivel would bother to engage with them is a mystery to me, let 'em live in their little fantasy world....maybe they could hook up with the flat-earthers and form a debate society. :psychoitc:
     
    Death likes this.
  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    There are more mature and intelligent ways to ask about things that were deliberately omitted from your holocaustian brainwashing.

    Anyone who has done independent research on the holocaust and pre WW 2 German history is aware of the close cooperation between Germany's National Socialists and the German Zionist Federation. The medallion I posted commemorates the Haavara (aka Transfer) Agreement between the two parties to transfer German Jews to Palestine.

    It is further proof that Germany's National Socialists worked with the German Zionist Federation to transfer, not exterminate, Europe's Jewish population to Palestine and other points to the East.

    As you should know by now, there was absolutely no indication that Germany's National Socialists had a genocidal agenda to wipe out all of Europe's Jews either in orders from Hitler(1) or in any of the intercepted, secret German radio transmissions(2).

    Additionally, there is no mention of a German run genocidal agenda or homicidal gas chamber in any of the post war books written by Churchill, Eisenhower or de Gaulle.

    The genocidal agenda myth is simply another fabrication by Allied propagandists and the same fraudulent Hollywood - Holocaust Industry that duped the gullible with fake "human skin lampshades", shrunken heads, "human fat soap" and even a homicidal "vaporizer"(3).

    The homicidal "vaporizer" like the equally fictitious steam, electrocution(4) and gas chambers would almost be humorous if thousands of innocent Germans had not been criminally murdered in Soviet style, post war show "Trials".




    (1) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190


    (2) “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE”
    https://archive.org/stream/BreakingTheSpell_48/BreakingTheSpell-Kollerstrom_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

    Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

    The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED


    (3) "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED


    (4) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED
     
  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    Re:
    That's a laughable accusation coming from someone who has been professionally brainwashed by the same fraudulent Holocaust Industry that tried to deceive the world with fake human skin lampshades, fake human fat soap, shrunken heads and innumerable other hoaxes (1), (2)


    Re:
    Do you seriously think that a Nazi genocidal agenda complete with grisly, homicidal gas chambers was of "little relevance" to a man who hated the Germans (3)
    “God, I hate the Germans...”
    Dwight D. Eisenhower

    Neither Churchill nor de Gaulle make any mention of a German genocidal agenda or homicidal gas chambers either.
    Was it of little relevance to them too?



    (1)"17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (2)"HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "For over a decade, a criminal ring within the organization embezzled tens of millions of dollars through false restitution claims.”CONTINUED


    (3) https://quotefancy.com/quote/796826/Dwight-D-Eisenhower-God-I-hate-the-Germans
     
  9. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    5,320
    Likes Received:
    854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This guy makes a pretty good case for that procedure being impossible.

    Le Probleme des Chambres a Gaz with ENG SUB
    https://altcensored.com/watch?v=Ilx6-Qu7XaY


    Simply calling that guy a holocaust denier doesn't debunk his arguments.


    We all know about this guy.

    Gas Chamber Expert Debunks The Holocaust In Less Than Six Minutes?
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...=the+leuchtur+report+gas+chambers&FORM=HDRSC3

    All the stuff on the internet against this guy is sophistry. This expert agrees with him. Watch the video from the 39:00 time mark to the 42:35 time mark.

    One Third of the Holocaust - 3 of 5
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...244077F34DC7445AEC83244077F34DC7&&FORM=VRDGAR
     
    Grau likes this.
  10. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's obvious you have difficulty writing but you also have difficulty reading as well . . .

    I suggest you take some time to comprehend what you read.
     
  11. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have directly responded to all the points made. Just because the points are beyond your comprension does not negate this.
     
  12. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ok, still the two same straight forward questions.

    Does National Socialism not promise to build a racial-state? Or was Hitler not a REAL National Socialist?
     
  13. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If I ask if you're a flat-Earther, do I need to define what flat means or can you use a dictionary?
     
  14. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe you should try convincing Ali Khamenei of that first.
     
  15. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your picture definition of a siege.
    [​IMG]
    Does the bare chested actor give you nightmares?

    Let's look up that definition.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/siege

    "a military blockade of a city or fortified place to compel it to surrender"

    A "military" with no guns or weapons peaceably talking to police. Strange "military" you have there.

    Hmm, do you consider the capitol to be a fortified place?

    Sorry, but still absurd.
     
  16. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    6 million jews killed by Hitler. 20 million killed by Stalin. 65 Million under Mao. 12 Million by Leopold II. 2 Million dead under Pol Pot.

    They should be equally covered in history. The cause is simple - Socialism.
     
  17. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male



    Re:
    AND

    Re:

    Hello Scott, It seems like the only form of "rebuttal" to simple facts and physical realities that brainwashed holocaustians can muster are slander and name calling.

    I have never come across someone who has been professionally brainwashed by the Hollywood - Holocaust Industry who could do more than slander the numerous brave individuals who who have risked their reputations, careers and even lives to show the innumerable ways in which the SHN (Standard Holocaust Narrative) is both fraudulent and physically impossible.

    In previous posts, I have already shown @pitbull that myths about homicidal steam, electrocution(1), "vaporizer"(2), and gas chambers were simply products of Allied propagandists(3) that were adopted by the Hollywood - Holocaust Industry(4).
    Any objective individual who has watched Hollywood's melodramatic, WW 2 or holocaust fodder cannot help but notice the WW 2 - holocaust propaganda is alive and well.

    For example, Stephen Spielberg deliberately omitted in "Schindler's List" the fact that the camp commandant was arrested and imprisoned for cruelty to inmates(5) after being tried by German Judge Konrad Morgen. Commandant Karl Koch, too was tried and executed by the Germans for cruelty to inmates.

    It's an odd sort of "Death Camp" system in which Commandants are executed for abusing inmates but when you put aside all of Hollywood's whips and monocles, the Germans ran their work camps in as humanely as possible. (6)

    Finally, no Holo-Horror story would be complete without some mention of the mythical, homicidal gas chambers.
    I believe that it was the Communist propagandists who accused the Germans of killing people in homicidal "steam chambers" and the Polish propagandists that accused the Germans of killing people with fanciful "electrocution chambers" but it is the mythical "gas chambers" that is the most enduring lie in spite of the fact that not one "gas chamber" exists or existed when hundreds of them would have been needed to murder "millions of people".
    Where all they all?

    In spite of the fact that there is absolutely no mention of a homicidal gas chamber in any of the Red Cross Reports, in any of the intercepted, secret German radio transmissions, by any of the honest for inmates or in any of the post war books written by Eisenhower, Churchill and de Gaulle should cause even the most thoroughly brainwashed holocaustian to question but, sometimes even hard facts are no match for decades of fanatical anti German indoctrination.

    Thanks for the many links that you've provided and please keep up the good work.



    (1) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED


    (2) "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED


    (3) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.


    (4) "The Hollywood Directors Who Filmed the Liberation of Nazi Concentration Camps"
    https://hyperallergic.com/426644/lamoth-filming-the-camps-the-holocaust/

    EXCERPT "George Stevens, John Ford, and Samuel Fuller, best known for their work in Hollywood, all documented the Allied liberation at the end of the war.

    But during this period of war, they were acting less as artists than as functionaries of US propaganda and information efforts, working for the US Armed Forces and Secret Services.CONTINUED


    (5) "THE FACT SPIELBERG SUPPRESSED IN SCHINDLER'S LIST: The Commandant of Krakau-Plaszow (Amon Goeth) Was Arrested by the SS for Brutality against Inmates"
    https://www.revisionisthistory.org/revisionist6.html

    EXCERPT "This vital, exculpatory information has been censored by Spielberg in order to maintain his propaganda depiction of the German military in the worst possible light.

    The fact that the SS, under orders from Heinrich Himmler, attempted to operate the concentration camps (KZ) in a humane manner, in part by prosecuting, jailing and even executing brutal Nazi concentration camp personnel, has been nearly completely suppressed in much of the discussion of the history of World War Two.

    One of the key officers who was instrumental in Himmler's campaign to attempt to ensure the human rights of KZ inmates, was the heroic and incorruptible SS Judge Konrad Morgen."CONTINUED
     
  18. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No its not simple you project it as being simple because you do not understand the complex differences in all these events.

    You compare all the listed events as if they are same trivializes them all and necessarily defines morality by the amount of people who died like some kind of pissing contest or football score.

    In this article it advises why its important to study the holocaust and other genocides using compararisons which you did NOT do:
    https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/resources/educational-materials/holocaust-and-other-genocides

    It also goes on to specifically advise:

    "It is also important to note that there are many challenges in such a comparative approach. Care should be taken to avoid a number of pitfalls:

    1. The comparing of two distinct historical events will be difficult without careful historical contextualisation, and so requires good understanding of both historical events. This is a particular challenge given the lack of educational material that actually does compare/relate the Holocaust to other genocides.

    2. The differences between historical events are as important and significant as their similarities and care must be taken not to equate, diminish, or trivialise either the Holocaust or the genocides to which the Holocaust is compared.

    3. It is important to be alert to the difference between comparing genocides, which is possible and legitimate, and comparing the suffering of individual victims or victim groups, which is not. Care must be taken not to create hierarchies of suffering or allow the value of a comparative study to be diminished by political or social agendas or competing memories.

    It is important to be aware of the rationale behind comparing the Holocaust to other genocides. This being said, there are certain reasons or strategies for comparing the Holocaust to other genocides that are not fruitful and that definitely should be avoided. Some of these are:

    1. The link to other genocides is made to hide certain aspects of one's national history, such as collaboration with Nazi Germany during the Holocaust.

    2. The Holocaust is seen as a means of political power in contemporary politics and the link to the Holocaust is made out of political considerations.

    3. The link to other genocides is made to diminish or trivialise the Holocaust."

    The bottom line is your intent is to trivialize the holocaust saying there is nothing special about it. Its transparent and its a worn and over-used holocaust denial exercise. The fact that you think you can define genocides by counting the no. of dead like its a pissing contest also speaks loudly. Any death in these genocides was equally as immoral and no one who studies the holocaust, holodomor, the Armenian genocide, the Cambodian killing fields, etc., argues otherwise-only deniers like you whose agenda is to trivialize death as if the amount of death defines its immorality.

    Next your absurd continued attempt to attribute socialism to Hitler's beliefs as the reason for all these genocides is odious particularly since you are well aware socialists and communists as well as labour unionists were rounded up and put in concentration camps.

    More to the point the reason why these other genocides took place was not because socialism teaches genocide is part of socialism but because each of these leaders of these genocides had complex belief systems that were TOTALITARIAN, i.e., that believed whether you had a free trade market or government monopology on control of businesses was NOT the issue-directly controlling people to follow your views and killing them if they did not, was seen as reasonable. That has nothing to do with socialism and very much to do with complex issues as to group behaviour of humans and what happens when humans revert to primal tendencies and following an Alpha male no different then we did thousands of years ago.

    It has to do with homo sapiens, otherwise called human beings, a primate life form. As primates we are pack animals and we form packs that are led by Alpha males. This is basic human biology which clearly you have no idea of for it to seem simple and everything bad to appear to you to be caused by socialism.

    Are you even aware of the role of private enterprise in Hitler's Germany and how he used it? Clearly not.

    I have read your reponses and they project onto complex topics your own simplistic rigid views because you can't grasp the nuances and assume if you can't no one else should.

    You also misrepresent the death of people not just Jews but all the deaths in the events you list.

    I also want to make this crystal clear. As a Jew I was taught about the significance of the holocaust in what it did to my people and how it was part of a greater chain of events of anti-semitism that culminated in deliberately trying to render extinct all Jews of Europe and eventually the world no different than what Hamas preaches today.

    I was taught necessarily about the others who died side by side with us including the mentally disabled, Roma. 7th Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, specific Lutheran and Roman Catholic clergy and other gentiles in the Christian Democratic party or because of the Christian beliefs chose to hide or help Jews and die because of it.

    I was most certainly taught to understand and study the similiarities with other genocides never comparing one worse than the other and studying them all with equal respect and for common themes of negativity not to trivialize each other's genocide.

    I was also taught clearly unlike you that Ernst Thaelmann, leader of the German Communist party since 1925 and one-time candidate for the German presidency, was executed in the Buchenwald camp and was arrested after the fire that destroyed the Reichstag (German parliament) building in 1933 and that he spentalmost 12 years in the camps.

    I was also taught and there is no shortage of documented evidence of the slaughter of communists, Social Democrats, and trade unionists across Europe by the Nazis. They were first rounded up along with we Jews and we know damn well why.

    History speaks for itself and your attempts to deflect from a topic you do not understand by engaging in an absurd attempt to call Hitler a socialist or raise other genocides and call them all the fault of socialists speaks for itself.
     
  19. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For you to argue capital hill is not "fortified" is idiotic. The definition of fortified is public domain. Fortified refers to any building or site" provided with defensive works as protection against attack."

    Your definition of seige is only one of many definitions depending on the context in which it is used and again anyone who is literate would know this by looking up or using the definition appropriately. It most certainly can be used to define ANY prolonged attack designed to induce surrender or or a prolonged period of misfortunate it doesn't necessarily have to compel surrender but ironically in the case you try deny was a seige it was trying to do just that, i.e., force the government of the day by violence and physical tresspass and property vandalism to change their vote. It showed a deliberate message that if an election doesn't get the trespassers the President they want, they would break the law to do so.

    Anyone can go to: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/siege and see how you cherry picked only one meaning of seige to suit your opinion and ignored the rest.

    As well your comment about the bare chested individual is childish and purile. It shows like the holocaust your agenda is to try come on this forum and trivialize actual historic events to suit your own political agenda.
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ali Khamenei is not Hitler. He has nothing to do with the holocaust. You again deflect from the holocaust because your idiotic attempt to engage people in a debate as to whether Hitler was a socialist failed to deflect from your inability to deny and trivialize the holocaiust.

    Again your attempt to define Iran as socialist is idiotic, it is a theocracy.

    It is ruled by the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurist which is a council of mullahs and Imams who claim to interprate the laws of the Koran.

    This council then appoints a supreme leader who is called an Ayatollah but that Ayatollah must be an Imam or Mullah. The council then designates through appointment a judicial system to impose this clergy council's rulings on the Koran.

    Its December 1979 constitution later amended in 1989 sets this all out including the fact that the Supreme Leader is also the religious authority, they are one and the same. Socialism is not based on religion in fact it was a concept created by atheists and agnostics to challenge monarchs who did not separate themselves from their religion when they ruled The closest analogy to the Ayatollah would be the Pople of the Roman Catholic Church or Henry the Eighth when he declared himself as head of the Church of England and whose views on Anglicism were imposed on the state.

    Again you show your ignorance as to the type of economics practiced in Iran since the clergy councils took over from the Shah.

    "In the fall of 1985, the Office of Cooperation Between the Theological Seminary and the University, headed by Mohammad Taghi Mesbah Yazdi at the Qom Theological Seminary, published the results of its jurisprudential research concerning Islamic economics, under the title An Introduction to Islamic Economics. According to this interpretation, Islamic economics does not necessarily aim at providing social equilibrium and preventing the concentration of wealth. Rather, like neoclassical economics, it examines the tradeoff between economic growth and social justice, and considers the former preferable to the latter."

    source: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/fron...ic-economy-come-from-and-where-did-it-go.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021
  21. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You might want to tell Ali Khemenei that.
     
  22. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Tell him what that he is the head of a Muslim clerical council advocating his views of the Koran? What exactly? Do you know?

    Are you aware in Islam practiced in Iran and in all Islamic nation capitalism and making money to accumulate privately and owning property privately is NOT an issue as long as you are the right kind of Muslim, i.e., Shiite in Iran and practice your prayers and beliefs as the Ayatollah tells you? You have any clue how it goes down in the streets of Tehran or anywhere in Iran? In fact socialists and communists and/or trade unionists in Iran would be arrested if they openly challenge the government and they have been and many have been tortured and killed.

    How about you talk to some actual Iranians about their country?
     
  23. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,684
    Likes Received:
    1,477
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ali Khemenei as well as the former Iranian leaders believe that Holocaust denialism is key to Middle East politics. I would suggest reading up on the Middle East.
     
  24. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,071
    Likes Received:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    The reason I seemed to be vague earlier is because I was unsure as to whether you meant National Socialism in general or, specifically, Germany's National Socialism in the 1920s - 1945 era.

    I still couldn't give you a simple "Yes or No" answer because of the many variables that existed but if Germany's National Socialists promised to build a pure race racial state, it was in name only.

    Also, I'm not sure if you mean a "pure race state" or "racist state"

    So, I'll assume that you mean Germany's National Socialism from the 1920s to 1945 but still the degree to which a pure race racial state was important would vary from individual National Socialist to individual National Socialist just as some people are more racist than others.
    Goering, for example said: "I decide who is a Jew and who is not." so the person's ethnic background must not have been too important to him especially since there were Jewish members of the National Socialist Party(1).

    The degree to which Germany's National Socialists felt that racial purity was important became less as Germany began to lose the war and welcomed anyone of almost any race or age.

    Perhaps the area in which a person's racial or ethnic background was least important was Germany's diverse military(2)
    which included 150,000 Jews some of whom received Germany's highest honors and rose to Germany's highest ranks(3).

    Another example that indicates that Germany's National Socialists were somewhat relaxed in their persecution of Jews was the success of the Rosenstrasse protest(4) in which a crowd of non Jewish women demanded the release of their 2,000 Jewish husbands and succeeded in having them freed.

    Re:
    It's commonly accepted that Hitler was a real National Socialist but you seem to be more interested in Hitler's racial sentiments. While he is generally demonized as a frothing "hyper-racist", that simplistic image is primarily a product of the Hollywood - Holocaust Industry myth makers.

    Hitler, the man, is far more complex than the hyperbolic cartoon image fabricated by the Hollywood - Holocaust consortium.

    For example, British fighter and test pilot stated that he did, indeed see Hitler shake hands with Jesse Owens just as an August, 1936 article of "The Baltimore Sun" reported that Hitler sent Owens a commemorative inscribed cabinet photograph of himself.(5) Owens repeatedly commented on how well he was treated in Nazi Germany only to come home to the racism that plagued America in the 1930s

    While volumes have been written about Hitler's hatred of Jews, I feel that Hitler's true sentiments were more complex than that.
    I suspect that he feared and disliked the Jews who comprised the majority of the Communist leadership that threatened not just Germany but the rest of Europe. On the other hand, throughout his life he had warm relationships with many Jewish individuals throughout his life that include a writing relationship with young Rosa Nienau (6).
    Rather than lift additional excerpts from similar articles, I've just listed 2 others that are along the same vein(7), (8).

    I hope that I've answered your questions satisfactorily because I've spent quite a bit of time trying.





    (1) "List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (2) "Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces: A Triumph for Diversity?"
    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/1/3/3102

    EXCERPTS " I ask those historians who still believe that Hitler and the Nazis were “white supremacists”: how do you account for the incredible degree of non-German and ethnic minority (i.e., 150,000 Jews and Jewish Mischlinge) collaboration during World War II? Again, some two million non-Germans helped the Nazis.

    The important thing to realize is that had the Nazis been as racist as most historians have argued, then they could not possibly have garnered the immeasurable level of support that they did. Even after Stalingrad; Spaniards, Slavs, Franks, and tens of- thousands of other non-Germans continued to fight for the Nazis on a volunteer basis. Frenchmen and Arab volunteers gave their lives in the final fight for the capital of Berlin in 1945. Hitler continued to allow thousands of Jewish men to serve, and many did so with incredible tenacity and valor. One has to call into question whether all of these Jewish men and other non-Germans were really as opposed to the Nazi regime as they have claimed after the fact. Their tenacity and determination suggests otherwise in many cases. The Jewish soldiers Bernhard Rogge, Helmuth Wilberg, Erhard Milch, and Ernst Prager come to mind.

    The Nazis never racially segregated their troops. Blacks, Slavs, Asians, and Arabs fought shoulder-to-shoulder with Germans."CONTINUED


    (3) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED



    (4) “The Women’s Rosenstrasse Protest”
    https://historycollection.co/taking-stand-evil-tales-german-resistance-wwii/8/

    EXCERPT “Between February 27 and March 6, 1943, a group of non-Jewish Germans protested outside of the Jewish community building at Rosenstrasse 2-4 in Berlin. At the center, 2,000 Jews had been imprisoned, comprised mostly of the Jewish husbands of non-Jewish women and the male children that came from the mixed marriages.

    Women and children, even as guns were held to their heads, refused to leave or back down. The SS were ordered not to shoot because the protests were not viewed by Joseph Goebbels as political, but rather as women desperate to keep their families together. On March 5, men in SS trucks threatened the crowd with automatic weapons but still they remained. On March 6, all of the people imprisoned at Rosenstrasse were ordered to be released by Goebbels, finally ending the protests and going down in history as one of the most substantial acts of resistance in Germany against the Nazis.” CONTINUED


    (5) "Jesse Owens"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens

    EXCERPT " However, in 2014, Eric Brown, British fighter pilot and test pilot, the Fleet Air Arm's most decorated living pilot,[37] independently stated in a BBC documentary: "I actually witnessed Hitler shaking hands with Jesse Owens and congratulating him on what he had achieved."[38] Additionally, an article in The Baltimore Sun in August 1936 reported that Hitler sent Owens a commemorative inscribed cabinet photograph of himself.[39" CONTINUED


    (6) "Remarkable tale of Hitler's young Jewish friend"
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46192941



    (7) "Herr Hitler before the hate set in"
    https://www.timeshighereducation.com/books/herr-hitler-before-the-hate-set-in/157864.article


    (8) “5 Jews Hitler Actually Liked”
    https://historyofyesterday.com/5-jews-hitler-actually-liked-c702217e1aa5
     
    Jazz likes this.
  25. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    1,227
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ali Khemenei's denial of the holocaust does not make him a socialist which was the claim you made and I repudiated. Your deflection from your original false description he was a socialist is noted.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2021

Share This Page