Coming to your town: 85,000 more Haitians.... Jpe, what the hell are you doing to America?

September Houston Democratic Debate Transcript – Third Debate

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/democratic-debate-transcript-houston-september-12-2019

 

Don't know where you come up with your numbers, but virtually all statistics say NOT TRUE...
first graph that pops up on the question is from Statista. Plenty more where that came from.
You may have never worked or lived in third-world countries- I have.

There may be Haitians who have immigrated here who are making good incomes- because they came from the top elite of the Haitian economy.
What's flooding in over the border is from the lower end of the economy. They are what I stated they are.
IF HAITIANS WERE AS ADVANCED AS YOU ALEDGE- THEIR COUNTRY WOULD NOT BE THE ARMPIT OF THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE....


I assume you do understand that $1250 is a great deal less than $57,000?

From the 2021 Index of Economic freedom-

"The Western Hemisphere’s poorest country, Haiti is plagued by widespread corruption, gang violence, drug trafficking, and organized crime. Jovenel Moïse of the right-wing Parti Haïtien Tèt Kale (PHTK) began his five-year term in 2017. Legislative elections have been postponed indefinitely, and Moïse has governed by executive decree in the absence of parliamentary government. Moïse’s planned constitutional reforms will give him increasingly authoritarian control despite his unpopularity. Violent antigovernment protests, sparked by the stagnant economy and Moïse’s alleged involvement in the embezzlement of up to $2 billion from Venezuela’s now-defunct PetroCaribe program, are ongoing. Reconstruction from storm damage remains a major challenge. One-quarter of Haiti’s people live in extreme poverty."

 

I have also advocated harsh penalties for employers, and here's why. It's not so much that I want to put those business people in jail (although if they hire illegals, either knowingly, a wink-wink situation (like when 15 of their employees have the same SSN), or even a "should have known" one, my goal is to scare the beejezus out of the employers to the point that making such a hire would never happen in the first place. And to be clear, I'm talking about every single person involved in hiring an illegal, the hiring manager, the HR person who onboarded them, the VP (or whatever) in charge of that division, AND executive management. And I'm not talking about some minor thing, I'm talking about a felony that, by law, cannot be pled out and carries mandatory minimums of at LEAST a year, maybe more.

If you eliminate 99% of available jobs by scaring the people doing the hiring so bad they wouldn't even DREAM of doing so, no matter how much cheaper they may be able to get an employee for, you completely remove the incentive for illegals to be here in the first place, and they'll self-deport.

Most white-collar middle management types won't do well in prison, and will avoid having a felony on their records at all costs. Which is precisely what I'm counting on. Of course, like any actual plans at enforcement, it requires a government that actually WANTS to enforce immigration laws in the first place.

 

Not that I can even remotely be described as a Trump cultist, I nonetheless wanted to make a point. First, it's not all immigrants to which I or most other people are opposed, it's just the illegal kind. And second it's not hatred, it's a sense of doing the right thing, putting America (and Americans) first, and following the law as it has existed, pretty much unenforced, for decades now. Why do you endorse breaking the law?

 

I get tired of people like you trying to turn observations of facts into personal character slurs. Seems to be a trademark of the left. Turn everything upside down and act righteous when it's really ludicrous.

ALL people make themselves what they are- they either crave knowledge and education and work to better themselves, or they choose to live off others, or they choose to be nothing and wait for the wind to blow them something better. Such people are not defined by race or origin, but by self- and a good part of that is the choice to follow the culture of those around them rather than make their own way and believe in themselves.

Anyone can make the right choices, but in real life- most will live in a way shaped by that culture, and never do a damn thing to improve that culture; passing it down from one generation to the next. Those are CHOICES they make- not something that was done to them, not something they were unjustly deprived of and have no control over. They do not deserve sympathy for refusing to make better choices, and every one of those people who depend on taking from others will learn- Nothing.

Haiti was given $13 Billion dollars in aid after the 2010 earthquake- and that comes out to about $1200 per capita- equal to a years average income for the workers, but this is for every man, woman and child.
Where did that money go? Why is one-third of their population still in need of humanitarian need? Because they have developed a culture where such aid is an accepted part of the economy- and thye simply consume it and look for more.

Now I really don't care on way or the other in terms of Haiti setting it's living standard. I would hope they would do well- but that is their choice. I do not accept that America has any obligation whatsoever to bail them out; what we do in that fashion is charity. However I do care about the welfare of my own country and society, and I object to diluting the productivity of that society with people who are here to benefit by moving into a nation they will undoubtedly not contribute to. I want America to thrive- which is what enables us to do so much around the world. Anything that degrades our ability to thrive harms not only us- but affects our ability to help anyone. It's just fact; until Haiti's culture thinks differently; we are the enablers that allow them get by, to postpone progress and to continue to need assistance from the rest of the world. It's not wise to import that attitude, no matter where it comes from. We do them harm- and it will do us harm as well.

 

If those Haitians are willing to work we need them desperately as we have over 100 MILLION DEaDBEaT Americans of working age who will not apply for any of the millions of available jobs. We need people willing and able to work, desperately.

 

If they were "willing to work" they would not among the poorest nation on the planet.

Tell Dems to stop paying people to idly collect welfare

 

At least half of those 100 MILLIION deadbeat Americans are right wingers, and its probably really closer to 70%. No one works where no JOBS EXIST!!!!Haiti has no kind of economy and never has had one. We have MILLIONS OF JOBS and no one to fill them despite 100 plus MILLION working age people not in the job market.

 

If it were not for Mexicans and other South American immigrants we would not have any work done outside in the elements. They do most of our construction and landscaping work and anything physical out in the elements.

 

Stop giving them free s**t, and they'll find a work ethic somewhere. Starvation is a very powerful motivator.

 

those are US laws, they can apply, and if approved be allowed it, Biden did not change the rules

 

I think we do need our people to go back to work, and the jobs are available- and IF the fools in government will quit promising them a free ride and a free lunch..... THEY WILL GET HUNGRY....
AND THEN- they will go back to work.

IF instead you fill those jobs with illegal immigrants, there will be no jobs for those lazy Americans when they get tired of doing without and want to go back to work.
Then THEY will be the ones who become dependent on a government handout, who are owned by the politicians because they can no longer stand on their own feet.

Not needing someone to prop you up and pay your way IS the essence of freedom, and it's one hell of a good feeling. Of course it's not free- you have to pay your own way to be free. I have to believe that those who disagree have never matured to that point and have no concept of the value of that position- because if they did, they would never lend their support to the people bent on making them weak and dependent.

 

What a bunch of complete horseshit.

 

I'm an Ultra-Conservative. Too bad truth offends you.

Again, you ignore the reality that foreign powers interfere in the political, social and economic development of Haiti, in addition to dozens of other States.

You effectively rob 3rd & 4th World States at gun-point and then mock them because they aren't able to advance into a stable 2nd Level Economy.

Let's turn the tables.

Suppose Russia put a gun to the head of your President and forced them to sign a contract giving away 92% of your wealth/profits to Russia.

You get 8%.

Except you never get 8% because Russian companies commit fraud by fraudulently devaluing their assets to show losses to avoid paying you that paltry 8% in royalties.

So, you got nothing. You're not even allowed to tax Russian companies.

Then you ask Russia for money to build roads and railroads and schools and hospitals and Russia laughs in your face and tells you to go borrow money from a Russian bank via the IMF.

You go with hat-in-hand to the IMF who will gladly loan you money, so's long as you spend it buying antiquated Russian naval vessels that you don't need, and outdated Russian fighter aircraft you don't need and Russian tanks and armored personnel carriers and weapons and weapons systems that you don't need.

Now you're mired in debt. The Russians are stealing all your wealth, their companies are not paying taxes to you, and so you have to tax the snot out of your people, except that never works.

Where do you think the US would be if that happened?

Well, you'd still be a 3rd/4th World State with a ZERO Level Agrarian Economy.

Don't fall getting off your high horse.

And you will, because those Haitians coming to the US will prosper greatly and their prosperity is your prosperity.

 

As I said, it is the US Census Bureau, which is a primary source.

Your secondary/tertiary data source is less than accurate.

The US Census Bureau data shows how successful Haitian immigrants to the US are.

I spent a month working in Burkina Faso; 6 weeks training the Egyptian Army; 3 months at a UN refugee camp in Mae Hong Song, Thailand; a year in Honduras helping guys in suits terrorize hapless Hondurans into voting for the US-puppet dictator; 2 months in Turkey; 2 months in Greece (both are damn near 3rd World); 6 weeks in Czechoslovakia and Hungaria during Druzba '86 (2nd Worldish in cities but 3rd Worldish in rural areas); 6 months in Saudi, Kuwait and Iraq; and 6 months in Panama, just to name a few, so I get around and I've had to go to Africa twice this year because I have a contract with an NGO.

Not all of them. I do legal and immigration counseling at the African cultural center once a month, and also at a center on Warsaw Avenue that is Spanish-speaking "Native Americans" mostly from Central America.

My maternal grandparents were from the, um, lower end of the economy in Romania. I mean, working on a collective farm is about as low as you can get. Their ancestors were slaves on a Papal Estate for nearly 600 years, so working on a collective farm is certainly a step up from that.

Your conclusion is all wrong for the reasons I stated above.

 

It's hard to be successful when foreign powers interfere in your government and your economy.

 

We can stop interfering and sending them money then. They have no claim of refuge here.

 

You seem to be missing all the truths. I'll just point out one thing. The Haitians, like the Mexicans the Central Americans - already have a country. They can't make their countries work.
WHY would you assume they would improve ours? I've worked contracts in Honduras and other central American countries. Managed a large project in Venezuela. back when their socialist issues were first exploding. Entered the country just as martial law and national curfews were declared- and it's a hundred times worse there now. Many of them are nice people- but they have no ability to get their systems working. The work ethic was often "manana", a promise renewed every day to start working tomorrow. You didn't walk the streets in some cities without some kind of protection- usually a good knife because only the thugs and gangs had guns. These people have spent their lives in that environment, they are programmed with it.
Why would you assume that "their prosperity is my prosperity"?

Mexico for example like all nations, has some foreign income. 20 years ago- Oil was first, tourism second- and third was what we call remittances. That's money made here by people working here and sending those dollars to Mexico. Much of that is sent to finance others in the family of the sender to come here too. In the last few years- remittances have become Mexicos largest source of international income. The "prosperity" of the immigrants seems to be going back to their homeland.

I pointed out that Haiti received $13.5 billion in aid to help with the last earthquake. That's not an isolated incident, all kinds of efforts have been made to get Haiti on it's feet. The US sent troops to Haiti about 100 years ago to stabilize things after a presidential assassination there. Other nations were potentially looking to take control of Haiti, possibly making it a base threatening to the US. Troops remained 19 years. Most all the efforts to turn Haiti into a functional and self-supporting nation failed. Internal corruption has been virtually constant. I don't know where you come up with the ludicrous gun-to-your-head stuff, but these people have dropped the ball on themselves, over and over. So... they are going to colonize America and make it better? Sure.

 

Dude, give up. Biden's wife served lunch to future illegals in Mexico. Castro literally escorted illegals across the border. O'Rourke said he'd rip down the fence between Juarez and his own city. AOC said no people are illegal and borders should be open. Keith Ellison wants open borders. Democrats encourage illegals with sanctuary cities. Liberal judges let illegals escape through the back doors of court houses.

Name me some democrats who strictly uphold our immigration laws. The left's platform since Clinton called illegals a scourge on the country is to bring in as many potential voters as possible, it's in the memo sent out by the DNC.

Here's what's funny. The left on this board has been saying we don't need a wall and that we can use technology. But as soon as someone in the Biden admin said they wanted to use technology to stop illegals, the left on this board started to criticize it. Deep down in their politically driving hearts, the left, although they'll never admit it, wants illegals, even if it means destroying the American way of life.

 

US law allows people to apply for citizenship... Republicans have made a big deal of it, telling the world how easy it is to come here, now the world is coming to test if what republicans have been saying is true - what did Republicans expect would happen?

 

Biden did not change the laws (yet), that much is true. But he is also not enforcing them, which is one of his primary jobs, to enforce the Laws of the United States, which includes securing the borders from foreign invasion by people who do not qualify for entry, which includes 98% give or take of those seeking "asylum", as very, very few of those making that claim actually qualify. Allowing these people to enter the country ROR is, in and of itself, a crime.

 

Of course it does! And it should!! But an illegal alien cannot apply for citizenship until they go back home and immigrate the legal way. As well it should be. Living in the USA is not some right that applies to every human on the planet. We have laws concerning legal immigration and they ought to be followed, and those who refuse to do so and invade our country illegally should be aggressively sought out, found, face a trial for their crime, and then be deported. Every single last one of them.

People who help them, enable them, hire them, provide "legal" sanctuary for them (that neither cities, counties, or states have the authority to do as immigration is within the purview of the feds, as provided for in the Constitution), or in ANY way make it possible or easier for them to arrive illegally and/or stay illegally should be charged with felonies that cannot be pled down, face mandatory jail sentences, and if they are elected officials, be barred from ever holding an office in public trust again.

 

I do think immigration laws need to change, dems were willing to work with Republicans in trade for DACA under Trump, Trump let that opportunity slip by

 

I tried to say the same when it was discovered Trump had hired illegals

if we want to stop illegals from coming here, we have to go after businesses that hire them

 

What is it with you lefties and making every damn conversation about anything into a debate about Trump?? The man is no longer the President, and he has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion about immigration. What he did or didn't do may have affected how we got where we are, but it doesn't matter in the here and now because we are where we are regardless of how we got here!!

You lefties, lets face facts, do not want to stop illegal immigration. The reality is that many, probably most if not virtually all of you guys want open borders, you want unrestricted immigration, and you most certainly want to give amnesty to those criminal immigrants who are already here. While I might (but only might) be willing to consider some sort of solution on DACA that does not include deportation for at least some of them, I would say it would have to come with fundamental changes to assure such widespread amnesty would never happen again. The problem with that is, however, the reality that such promises were made by the left in the 80s to get a general amnesty for already present illegals, here we are 30 years later and they're calling for another amnesty, so their "promises" that it will never happen again are of questionable trustworthiness. But aside from that, as I've said, we should aggressively seek them out, detain and arrest them (without bail because they have no problems just disappearing), and once found guilty, the should face deportation. PERIOD. No amnesty, no sympathy, no sanctuary, no exceptions if you are not here legally, out you go.

I've heard people complain that illegals live in fear of being caught, but that isn't a bad thing. They should live in fear because they know they don't belong here, they know they are criminals, and they should know that the INS could come knocking at any time, or even just a simple thing like a speeding ticket could and most definitely SHOULD lead to their deportation, as well as that of any illegal members of their family.

If you don't agree with the goal of having no illegal aliens living in the USA (as a goal!, perfection is unattainable) then at least have the stones to come right out and say that, as well as what it is you DO agree with rather than trying to once again redirect the question at hand to obsessively talking about our ex-President.