As We Enter Our Own 1776 Moment, Christian Leaders Must Make a Stand

Because they did not believe it a federal matter but a state matter...................shall we return to that since you are using it to support your argument?

 

Let's get real now, MoonGlow. Where have you evidenced followers of Jesus, burning down a Mosque? I would like to interview them and find out exactly what precepts of Jesus did you base these actions on? Let's do this together. Get the story and the resources. We'll find a way to get to the bottom. It would really satisfy my curiosity.

 

I was raised and schooled in the mid west. I think they did a fairly good job, but I would have appreciated more depth. I have studied probably 85% more of the North South equation since and am just would be really curious to know the false dogma you were forced to learn and if it still goes on?

 

It is no coincidence however, that many of it's precepts, especially individual liberty, fit hand in glove with the teachings of Jesus and the Christianity that arrived onn our shores.

 

You tell us. I never claimed that "teaching the history of slavery is anti-history".

What I cited was an example of Leftists erasing history, in this case, the history of slavery.

Here is the example of Leftists erasing history again:

So, what history got erased here?

1) The existence of slavery in the Americas preceding the arrival of the first Europeans in 1492

2) The arrival of the first African slaves on future U.S. territory

3) The date America/USA was born

Anyone who is teaching that August 2019 is the "400th anniversary of the beginning of American slavery" isn't teaching history. They're peddling a fabrication masquerading as history, just as anyone who teaches 2+2=5 isn't teaching mathematics - they're peddling a fabrication masquerading as mathematics.

How is it that you claim this is "teaching history". . . because what?

 

No more so than other religious faiths. But then I don't see freedom of speech, trial by jury, 2nd amendment, 4th amendment, 5th amendment etc in the Constitution and I especially don't see you are free to worship who you please if at all in Christianity.

Which specific laws or principles of our country unique to and indicative of Christianity are you talking about?

 

In 1607 the first permanent British colony in America was established at Jamestown. In July of 1619 the settlers established a legislative assembly for the purpose of governing the colony, thus the first British colonial government in America. The first African slaves arrived a few weeks later in August of 1619.

 

What law in the teachings of Jesus forces others to abide in him? Travel around D.C. sometime. Examine all the inscriptions you can find. Then come away and tell me those that formulated our sacred documents were not influenced by Christianity.

 

Our bicameral General Assembly, formerly the unicameral House of Burgesses, was established 402 years ago at the English settlement of Jamestowne upon orders of the Virginia Company. Governor Sir George Yeardley presided over its first session, which took place from July 30 - August 4, 1619.

Those would be the first African slaves to arrive at Jamestown, of course.

What Nicole Hannah-Jones & Co. omitted on the home page of the revisionist 1619 Project was the fact that the first African slaves to land on future U.S. territory arrived at the Spanish settlement of San Miguel de Gualdape in 1526. While its exact location remains unknown, San Miguel de Gualdape is generally thought to have been in South Carolina, and it is the first European settlement in what would become America/USA. Not only did the first African slaves arrive at San Miguel de Gualdape 93 years before the first African slaves arrived in Virginia, it was here where the first slave rebellion took place in the future U.S.. Thus it can be said, the place where slavery began in what would become the United States of America 250 years later was also the same place where the fight against slavery began.

Continuing, Pedro Menéndez de Avilés would bring more Africans, both free and enslaved, to La Florida when the Spanish established St. Augustine, the first permanent European settlement and oldest city in what would become the USA, in 1565. Later, two miles to the north of St. Augustine, the Spanish would establish the first settlement of free Africans in North America at Gracia Real de Santa Teresa de Mose, which became a haven for Africans fleeing slavery in the Carolinas:

 

Thou shalt have no other God before me and the if you don't accept Jesus as your savior you are doomed to an eternity in hell just to name a couple? Does the Christian god teach that you can have faith in him or some other god or none at all and that's fine with him and you will not be sanctioned by him.

Some founding fathers were some weren't were some were not.

Which specific laws or principles of our country unique to and indicative of Christianity are you talking about?

 

What you cheerfully overlook, as most agnostics do, is that separation from God is a personal choice, just like your faith is a choice in our free society. You are not forced to do anything so don't play that game!

 

Christianity was around 1700 years before our nation was founded. It influenced culture in many ways and I am sure you would dispute them all. We do base our calendar year on a time close to the Birth of Christ (BC) so there is a little respect there. I am not going to give you any fodder for dispute. I apologize if I made the grave error of implying Christianity had bearing on specific laws. Are you going to deny that Christianity had powerful influence to the positive on the totality of western civilization? That our forefathers fled a governmental oppression that used "religion" as a flog?
"Standfast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has set us free, and be not entangled again in the yoke of bondage!"......

 

And no where in our laws are the Christian god's edicts about believing only in him and if you don't there will be hell to pay excuse the pun. That Christian principle and matter of faith is not in the Constitution is it, in fact quite the opposite. it was not an influence in our founding was it?

 

I don't need a history of Christian thank you very much. The Birth of Christ was adapted to our calendar not the other way around. Our forefathers didn't flee anything they living here as British subjects, they didn't revolt against Britain for religious purposes they did it for political and economic reasons. Many were secularist or deist and of all sorts of faiths and beliefs.

Do you believe we are a "Christian nation"? Try this, I am assuming your are a Christian based on your arguments here, what moral principles or ethics do you believe you hold that I as a non believer in such religious faith do not hold?

 

Hey you don't believe in God......why on earth would you believe in "separation from God" or hell and at the same time foment the idea it is forced on you? That is not anything close to Christianity. Jesus said" render unto Caesar what is his" Peter expounded on it later. Christianity does not dominate a form of government, but it influences it. You may not like that. You may prefer that Government is the ultimate in which to put your faith. I know many do.

 

This is why I support anulling the 501c3 tax exempt status for religious organizations, and why our government will NEVER do it. The power over the pulpit held by keeping money at the forefront of the religious-political debate and more importantly using it as leverage to stifle religious-political speech from the pulpit is paramount in keeping spiritually moral people subdued by a political system that hates their spirituality and undermines their moral values.

 

Many non-believers hold very good morals I will not doubt. I work shoulder to shoulder with them in many instances. We have common causes. One ethic a "believer" holds that is unique is the fact he understands that any goodness arising from his efforts is only a testimony to the God that can bring him to the point of perfection. Those efforts are not his own so no reason to be proud and inflated. Pride causes one to look down on others. Unbelievers do no have that going for themselves. It is always "see what I can do! and I can always do better!" Often gratitude is missing for position in life in unbelievers.

 

I believe as did the founding fathers in separation of religious faith and government you don't have to believe in supernatural beings to do that just a student of history. You are now claiming that support for taxation is a "Christian" thing now. You don't believe countries where Christianity did not exist did not tax their citizens? Does that mean I don't have to pay them anymore? And don't present false choices to me, either you have faith in supernatural beings or faith in government.

Again what principles of our government are a direct result of Christian influence? Which parts of the Constitution are unique to Christianity?

You asserted earlier that the founding fathers fled here because of oppressive governments forcing a religion on them. Well was that not Christianity that was doing so in those countries?

 

"Many" maybe most? Many "believers", Christians hold very good morals to, probably most. Some don't like some who aren't Christian or even of any religious faith. Causes that do not require a Christian faith, probably most causes.

That is a matter of faith, others do not need a god to give testimony to lead a life of such goodness.

And that is not a unique or indictive Christian ethic by any means. And in fact I have known Christians throughout my life that would fit your description. What is the premise of your claim people who are not Christians cannot have or do not show gratitude?

 

I don't know how to hammer this thing home with you.....You most absolutely do not have to confess a higher power than what is between your own ears to be a citizen of these United States! That was never the Founders intent. But those who do believe in something greater than themselves are protected, especially against those that say all faith must be solely in government! (Of course that is often done in some secular Republics) The Founders were of course concerned of the Nation Adopting a sect of Religion and requiring membership.
As to your comment about "taxation".......I credited you with being a whole lot smarter than that. Jesus paid taxes. In fact, he paid them while making the quote I prefaced. There are other accounts of him paying taxes. I won't bother you with what Apostle Peter says about the subject. It just seems you don't like Christians representing their precepts. You seem to get your back up that they have any influence. I don't know why? You have a lot in common I'm sure.

 

Man is on the verge, always has been, of some great discoveries. When it happens there is a cause for celebration. Where does that celebration go when one feels there is nothing beyond himself?
Culturally many think we will reach the Age of Enlightenment. Ever know anyone who thought he was truly enlightened?
Question for you Bluesguy..... Do you deny that our Declaration of Independence, a Document that was merely a Preamble to our Constitution, expresses the absolute belief that certain rights are bestowed upon us by something greater than ourselves such that they should never be denied?........particularly by men who have their own private thoughts between their own ears?

 

Pardon me for interjecting, Bluesguy, but where to begin?

Surely, you must be aware of the principles of American government, and more broadly the liberalism and individualism that are the hallmarks of Western Civilization, that are a product, in part or whole, of Christianity's philosophical and institutional influences. Oceans of ink have been spilled on this subject, and the Founders were quite open about it.

 

Exactly, Christianity did not influence our government with it's teachings. And in fact the Constitution insures that Christian belief that there is only one god we all must believe in is NOT a requirement for citizenship or to hold public office.

And that's a matter of your religious faith

They were concerned with mixing religious faith and government. And most all nations and countries of all faith have taxes, taxes are not unique to or indictive of Christianity. And I am fine with you believing in your precepts even living your life by them but don't claim them as something unique to yourself, what were you saying about pride and putting yourself above others?

 

Yes since there has been man he has always been on the brink of discoveries, and the more advanced and civil we become the faster they seem to come. And yes we should all celebrated those discoveries and those who brought them about. I don't understand what you are saying here?

Enlightened how? What is this goalpost of discovery that marks this enlightenment?

Well the DoI was not a preamble to the Constitution which was written much later after the first government failed.

But I assume you mean this phrase from the DOI

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

It speaks of both the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God............that is pretty broad one a matter of observable fact the other a faith it is not limiting to either. And BTW the only mention of a god.

The DOPI was the document declaring our independence as Colonies from the British government and laid out the grievances for which that independence was being sought. It wasn't about religious freedom or Christianity. I think it explains that man is at the best when they have the liberty and freedom to seek what is in their own self interest and that government is their to serve the citizens and not the other way around. That we get our most basic inherent rights merely by our creation, no matter how you believe that comes about, you inherit those basic human rights which are self evidence to a civil society.

 

Can you point it out in the Constitution? Which of our founding principles were unique to and a direct outcome of Christianity? The DOI as noted above is about men not gods and religious faith. The only mentions in the Constitution of religious faith are restrictive of it. Our founding principles were shared by MANY of MANY philosophies those of religious and Christian faith those not. They all came together in this great experiment of FREEDOM and LIBERTY and a government of the people not the other way around.