Revisiting The Waco Massacre...

I can see where you're getting at, and I agree whole thing should have been handled differently. But in the end we must look at the whole thing objectively. Ruby Ridge was over warrants on a clerical error on the state's part. That is a situation where the state is 100% at fault. Up until Waco, a situation such as Waco hadn't taken place. Cops were used to storming big talking end of day types, even if tons of guns were around, and the shock of the situation had them all cave without a fight. The law doesn't generally pick a game plan where they expect to lose so many officers. It isn't war, but war is what they got. Guarantee if the situation presented itself again, the couple dozen ATF guys would tell their boss, "(*)(*)(*)(*) off. Remember Waco?". It would still go right to siege, however. All situations with hostages go to siege. NONE ever end with the law saying, "oh well, you win this round", and driving off. Show me any time in history where people under siege by law enforcement got 60 days before the cops said, "(*)(*)(*)(*) it". Guarantee those children are why they waited so long. No matter how big of an extremists you are, any decent human being would have sent their kids out at some point to save them. They used their children as leverage to get as much time as they could and in the end took them with them. Whether people want to take that literally or figuratively. Whether suicide or not, the parents killed their children. The government doesn't just leave, nor will it just surround your home for 3 decades.

 

[video=youtube;wKlsThwd75w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlsThwd75w[/video]

Don't forget that the "child protectors" picked a very windy day to finalize their grand effort to protect children at Mt. Carmel.
Notice how those with Pavlovian conditioned "enlightenment" ignore this fact and many other facts while continuing their "protection" slaughters as in Lybia and S. Ossetia.

Here is video of their initial effort to protect children by shooting into the house where the children were. They also took this opportunity to bump off some of their own guys.
[video=youtube;XmYe_lW7kRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmYe_lW7kRA[/video]

 

Spoken like a good Nazi.

 

Are you seriously saying that ATF agents don't sleep with the mother's of 12-year old girls? That's a truly bizarre statement. And, was there any evidence of 12-year old girls being raped? None was presented.

Two questions for the statists. Why did the ATF refuse to allow the sheriff to arrest Koresh when he came into town for his regularly scheduled haircut? Why did some experience ATF agents refer to the operation as Operation Showtime?

Waco was a horrible tragedy that should have been avoided. It was inexcusable but they have all been excused.

 

1) I don't believe the parents killed their own children
2) I'd rather see the government wait around forever or let people go than see kids killed
3) Our priorities are screwed if we feel that the innocent children can be collateral damage in an attempt to forcibly remove the allegedly guilty adults in that compound.

 

I don't. I believe the survivors stories of actually being in there.

Read up on them if you like.

Why do you believe a sheriff who wasn't in there?

 

which is why that issue should have been looked into well before Waco incident.

 

There is no question the government screwed up in multiple cases but the Davidians were also looking for a standoff. It was a no-win situation for everyone.

 

i know, just hope it dont happen again and now we know what to look for.

 

1)Do you honestly believe if at any time the parents would have requested the children be allowed to leave the agents would have told them no? They killed the kids. Whether the suicide story is real or not does not change the fact their actions and decisions led to the final outcome. Even if I am totally innocent and would rather die than go to jail falsely accused, you better believe I'm getting my kids out of harms way.
2) It would never happen. When your child's safety is on the line, you deal with practicals not ideals. Not to mention the collateral effect of people knowing if they take kids hostage the government will let them go. Whether the Davidians were bad or not, not the precedent you want to set with people who are bad.
3) I'd much prefer they would have starved them out. Better to save the children for sure. Even if it would have taken years, they were going no where. Hopefully the government has learned when people are fanatical to the point of letting a man screw their underage children, dump massive lead at them upon trying to raid, they are fanatical enough to take their children to the grave with them. Even the sheriff in the video knew it was going on. Child molesters are convicted on testimony, for that is the only proof. Unless one video tapes their acts, what else is there? The common law thing was just some weird justification for child abuse. And to the guy at the trial who claims if 2/3s of the search warrant was for child abuse, why was ATF used? Well simple. Massive (*)(*)(*)(*)ing firearms. The is no armed branch of child services to handle taking children from people sitting on massive firearms, all the while planning for a doomsday confrontation.

In the end, they should have just road it out. Once again, hopefully the government learns. For we are a nation that doesn't trust power at all. I am proud of that fact, and the government should respect that fact, or expect the doubt to their intentions.

 

The government should have tried arresting these guys separately or taking apart this organization from the inside out but they stupidly simply surrounded the compound and pushed Koresh into his final battle mentality.

However, once the Davidians were surrounded and knew what was going on they should have walked out and took their fight into the courts. They chose to fight with rifles instead and then suicide out.

Everyone screwed up.

 

It wasn't an accident.

It was deliberate.

It just showed us that they are perfectly willing to burn heretics in America any time they choose.

They've been burning heretics overseas for over 100 years.

 

You do know that they were purchasing weapons illegally and the children themselves have reported the instances of rape.

I'd hardly say there were any innocent parties here except for the children.

 

They were not allowed to let the children leave as evidenced by the initial violent attack by gunmen on the children, and Reno had snipers shooting them.

Even if kids did manage to escape into the hands of their killers what would they gain, go into an orphanage where they are disappeared to be some rich dudes sex slave?

What did the killer geniuses learn, that the American people are a bunch of wimps, and that they can do this again.

We are not a nation that doesn't trust power......as we have given ultimate power to various officials to imprison or kill anyone any time for any reason.

And we lovingly tolerate the slaughter of millions around the world for democracy and its associated lies.

We have wasted America's vast wealth and reputation to enrich war crazies and financiers.

Are we like salt that has lost its savor and is fit for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under the feet of men? (Matt. 5:13)

 

None of those allegations were proven by the testimony of 2 or more faithful witnesses. They attacked with only suspicion as their excuse.

Shows you that the officials involved do not believe in Moses and American law. (Deut. 19:15)

No effort was made by the officials to peacefully prove any of their slogans and excuses.

That is not the American way, but the way of geniuses at emotional reactionary uncivilized behavior.

Just shows you how far many Americans are away from what America is supposed to be.

 

There were NO illegal weapons EVER recovered. The arrest warrant was for Koresh. He went to town several times a week. He could have easily been arrested in town. the ATF fired on innocent civilians and video and inferred shows they pumped the compound full of women and children with toxic gas. If the first actions of the ATF was really a mistake, they could have pulled back and got the suspect we he emerge. But instead the government slaughtered the entire group of people to make a point. the biggest tragedy is the fact that people like you aren't out raged that due processes and human rights violation were ignored for Americans civilians. Instead the AFT is applauded by those who believed "white, Christians cults" all deserve to die. Would you feel the same if this was a compound of homosexuals? I know I would!! Americans, no matter their religion or belief systems are supposed to be protected by the constitution and given due processes. You government MURDERED innocent people because they could! All of us should be very concerned with that sort of mentality!

 

Proof? Let's see it!

 

You are so full of (*)(*)(*)(*). If they would have told the negotiators they wanted to release the kids not one would been killed. My God.

 

There has never been an instance EVER where someone said they want to surrender and the law's retort was "no you must die fighting". I'm normally the conspiracy theorist on this site and you guys got me beat by miles.

 

There has never been an instance EVER where someone said they want to surrender and the law's retort was "no you must die fighting". I'm normally the conspiracy theorist on this site and you guys got me beat by miles.

 

wow I can't believe how many people are drinking the USA's propaganda flavored Kool-Aid still almost 20 years later.

 

Just like at Ruby Ridge where they love to shoot mothers while holding their baby. Or at Fallujah where they shot whole families fleeing the city, all over Iraq and Afghanistan, Lybia, VietNam etc. where they love to bomb the peasants.

Their mentality of hatred and slaughter has been operating at the highest levels since Lincoln & Marx's 1861 Communist Revolution in which Union General Sherman declared:

"We are not fighting against enemy armies, but against an enemy people, both young and old, rich and poor, and they must feel the iron hand of war in the same way as organized armies."

 

LOL. Are you kidding me? I love the footage of the initial raid. Probably the best footage of feebs getting their ass kicked on God's green earth. It doesn't mean I can't view the whole scenario objectively. At no time the BDs handle themselves as normal people would. And in the end, the inherently evil instrument that is government was just being itself.

 

Um...if you're a nutjob please warn people in advance. War is war. Law enforcement is law enforcement. And Ruby Ridge was nothing like Waco. Those people were killed because of a clerical error on the state's behalf. They won judgments to the tune of millions, and had I been in charge, many officers there would be serving a life sentences in solitary.

 

Funny what a bit of research can pull up.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blwacoguns.htm