Revisiting The Waco Massacre...

Anyone clarify this for me, please?

 

I believe but am not sure that children, with parents permission, can marry at 14. Heard someone mention it in another thread.

Doesn't sound right but Texas has stupid laws like not being able to run for office if you don't believe in God.

 

He tried to justify him sleeping with 14 year olds because common law in Texas says that a 14 year old can be married with parent's consent, so in some round about way it shouldn't be wrong because the parents let him. He also said MOST of the allegations were girls 14 or older. People in middle America are anti government. The feds get to go home, the sheriff has to live there. I'm sure after the horrible outcome, posturing as anti-ATF was an absolute must to be able to walk down the street.

 

Obviously you don't care about the little girls because they got sentenced to death by the ATF! We aren't talking about the ATF Killing a suspect, we are talking about them murdering everyone that was around him!!! All they had to do was back off and those kids would be alive! No this was the ATF killing US civilians and the rest of the country justifying it because they didn't like the group!!! Like I said before, would this be the same if they were blacks or Homosexuals????

 

Defense is justified, wars of lies and aggression like the ones we've been doing since 1849 are not the same, nor are they American.

 

That is an excellent documentary.It shows further evidence what a liar Clinton is.Till Bush jr came along,Clinton was the most evil corrupt president there ever was.

 

According to kenrichead,
"In total, the Texas Department of Public Safety, led by the Texas
Rangers, recovered more than 300 firearms from the Branch
Davidian compound. In addition, a number of live grenades and
more than 300 grenade components were uncovered. Hundreds of
thousands of rounds of ammunition were also seized.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms investigated David
Koresh for conduct involving: the illegal manufacture of machine
guns and the illegal manufacture and possession of destructive
devices. The FBI report provides evidence that the Davidians'
arsenal did indeed include weapons unlawfully manufactured. The
weapons listed include semiautomatic firearms illegally modified
to fire in full automatic mode, as well as grenades and
silencers. All of these weapons were unlawfully possessed."

The American Declaration of Rights says that Americans NEVER CONSENTED TO BE GOVERNED.

And all those rules against Americans owning weapons are contrary to the real America.

By what logic did Mr. Koresh consent to be governed by bla bla bla?

And, who says those reports of weapons stashes are not lies? Maybe all that stuff was planted or was left by the attackers.

We are still killing people in Afghanistan and Iraq all because of lies.

Why not lie about WACO too?

Their whole case covered with lies to justify themselves in burning heretics.

Moses said to prove all things by the mouth of 2-3 witnesses, faithful to the Truth. The US officials that attacked the people at Mt. Carmel, did not follow that basic principle of genuine law.

Instead, they followed the Noahide laws passed by Bush I in 1991, where only one witness is needed to convict any goyim.

 

Society makes the rules and society has said its unacceptable to plant land mines in your front yard to ward off stray children. They've also said you cannot own hand grenades.

If your implying that multiple government agencies are all lying about this why don't you just say that Koresh and his clans were aliens. Just as much proof for it.

People like you will never look at facts and make informed decisions.

Did the government force this? Yes

Did the Davidians want it also? Yes

Were the children innocent victims? Yes

 

All they had to do was surrender. If doing nothing wrong their lawyer could have sued the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of the government after the initial raid and the stand off ensued. Like I said before, I hate government. However, if you think you have a legal right to shoot outs, or if you think law enforcement could just "go away", you're nuts. Maybe you all think from day 1 to 50+ it was constant shoot out. That wasn't the case. They had 50 something days to surrender. Glorify them for killing cops if you want. Admire them for not caving to the system they claimed to despise if you will. But know (*)(*)(*)(*) well you what you're doing, when you're doing it. Especially when your adversary is the law. They all seemed like normal people from the video. Why on earth they didn't surrender and live to fight another day, only God knows now. But taking children who have no choice with them down the path they chose was wrong. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

Normal people would have surrendered. When you have someone pointing a bigger gun at you then you give up or die. Normal people get this. They were influenced by Koresh that this was a final battle so they sacrificed all for something that could have ended easily.

Had they thrown down their weapons and marched out there wouldn't have been any violence and they probably could have sued the government. This is how we deal with things in our society.

If the government is wrong you don't take them on with violence. You will lose.

 

Ken, I don't glorify Koresh, period. I think he was a nut. These people weren't normal.....so they deserve to die? I believe his followers were brain washed and those that were killed could not have "surrendered". If you watch the infrared video, the ATF fired on them day and night. The ATF/FBI tortured EVERYONE in the compound. They did kill several that tried to escape after the first group was allowed to "surrender". Those people had been taught that the government would come and kill them and guess what, they did come and attack them. All they knew was that it was the end of the world, therefore, in my mind making them mentally unstable and the children too young to make different decisions. Bottom line, the ATF had a warrant for Koresh and based on that warrant many people died without trail or mercy. I don't support their religion nor their beliefs. However, just because I don't agree with them or even if I think they are disgusting, I believe ALL US citizens are entitled to their rights. Our country was founded as defiance of government tyranny. If we sit idly by and allow the government to kill the freaks, not doubt we will be next! the government killed these people and we let them get away with it because we didn't like them. What a bunch of hypocrites we all are. We certainly are not what our founding fathers would have respected.

 

Seriously?

Surely that cannot even be constitutional.

Anyway, returning to the main thing, here's what I feel.

You have to remember that I lived in Britain, much smaller land mass, less diversity of culture, and(different) attitude to firearms.

The Davidians may appear somewhat unconventional, even strange, to those that are on the outside of their world.

But what is the difference between a 'cult' and a 'religion'.

For me there is no difference, only in number.

If a group like this sprung up in my country, then as long as the land they were living along was their land, they would be left alone.

Some of the trashy press may try to do an 'expose' of them, in the crass way that they do.

And I am sure people would mock them, while, at the same time, having their own odds beliefs and cultish type living style.

Naturally, if there were allegations of child abuse, these would be addressed in the proper manner, probably by way of visits from social services.

If there were allegations of firearms being held by them, sure, the cops would get a warrant and search the premises.

Mainly because gun ownership here is not usual, and very difficult.

I cannot envisage a situation in which British police would strorm the place, guns blazing, I just cannot see that, at all.

The men who went in at Waco, at the very least, they struck me as very gung ho, and reckless.

But people living an alternative lifestyle is not as unusual in the US, as it is here.

I have seen groups that could be considered to be just as dubious, perhaps more so, living in parts of the US.

Most of them have a large cache of arms.

I have seen various groups like this, from Neo Nazi groups, to Americans that gravitate away from mainstream society, for whatever reason.

Maybe we are all guilty of being suspicous of any lifestyle that does not fit our narrow view of how things 'should' be?

Over here, we get groups of 'travellers'. Gypsies, whatever one wishes to call them.

They have their own sub culture, which would be totally alien to me.

I'm okay with that, they are not bothering me, and since I do not know their culture well enough, who am I to say that mine is better, and that they should live like me?

However, there are those that do not accept it, and accuse these travellers of being dirty, thieves, etc, etc.

Pretty much the same sort of mindset that maybe existed in Germany in the 30's.

They were pretty harsh on the Romany travellers.

Jack

 

It seems staggering to me that one could get married at 14 in Texas, albeit with parental consent.

Here it is sixteen, that two years makes a big difference, albeit people being married at that age is very rare, these days.

I am going to assume that the Texan law would permit a 14 yrl old to, in theory, marry any age of man, that the parents could consent to that, but only at the point of being married to her, could one have sex with her, and that parents could not consent to non maritial sexual relations for their 14 yr old. Can they?

These laws are all a bit mad, to be honest.

I bet that to get served in a bar in Texas, you would need to be 21!

Fourteen to get married, and another seven years before you can legally buy a beer.

Anyway, the raid wasn't about allegations of child abuse, was it?

It was meant to be about those guns.

And Koresh apparently invited them in, just a short time before the raid, a few days, a week.

They apparently did not take him up on this.

Seems to me like they wanted an aggressive raid...for some reason.

Jack

 

Possibly.

If the state and their media demonised them enough.

Heck, look what has been happening to children outwith the US, at the hands of Gov agents (troops).

The piles of dead kids bodies in Iraq would make Waco seem like nothing, relatively speaking.

The only reason why gays or blacks would not be the targets, by the US Gov, is that there is no benefit to the US Gov in targeting them, at this moment in time.

They are too busy trying to demonise one billion people.

Muslims.

And what do we here about them....why, many of the self same allegations that were made against Davidians, that they are a 'cult', that they really want 'death', that the Prophet Mohammed is a paedophile, etc, etc.

It's the same old thing.

The Gov and their affiliates pick a given group.

Whip up fear and hysteria, against said group.

Gain approval of hysterical masses to 'do something'.

And then they do something terrible.

Jack

 

Maybe they did not trust those they would be surrendering to?

Maybe they distrusted them so much, that they felt that if they all walked out, that Koresh and others would be shot?

After all, Gov agents in foreign countries have been known to murder innocents, and those that have surrendered.

Be honest, if your country had foreign troops all over it, every single day, and said troops had bombed your country, murdering many in your community, plus the stories about prison abuses, etc etc, would YOU surrender to that?

Would you trust them, if they asked you to walk out of your own house?

I wouldn't.

 

In reality, there are likely more 'brainwashed' and 'nutty people', right there in your mainstream.

I would imagine the Davidians would have agreed.

 

Something akin to this, maybe?


http://www.politicalforum.com/lates...-prepare-declare-nuclear-holocaust-islam.html


Jack

 

exactly.well done.Ken should be ashamed to come on here after this post of Colorado Girls.Kens posts are just plain moronic and not well thought out like Colorado Girls are.

 

No its sickening how YOU ignore the autrocites the ATF,Clinton and Reno committed that day.Like someone else said,the ATF is far more dangerous to us than some religious nuts.

 

I never said the government was perfect and they were far from it. The Davidians certainly were not victims however. They were itching for this fight every bit as much as the ATF was.

 

Boy you arent kidding.He sure was cowardly that day.As anyone who watches that video can see,Bill "I never had sex with that woman" Clinton lied his tail off to the american people when he addressed the nation that night. His first lie was -

Lie #1-Clinton-The davidians started that fire,we did not start the fire.They started it by accident..COMPLETE B.S

as anyone who watches that video can see,there is an army tank not only bulldozing the compound, but it also is seen with a flame thrower mounted on the top of it shooting flames onto the compound.

Lie# 2- Clinton-We never fired at the davidians,they fired at us but we never returned fire.

Complete Bs again.In the video you can see a helicopter circling the compound with a gun runner on the side like you see in those vietnam films,shooting with a amchine gun,bullets onto the compound.

Matter of fact,the survivors who survived said people came out yelling -"dont shoot,we give up: yet the ATF continued to fire at them.

Also it was either newsweek or time that reported that Reno saying Clinton gave her the okay to burn down the compound.

Clinton,Reno,and the ATF people that day are mass murderers of women and children and deserve the death penalty.

Clinton was also at the white house that day in front of the tv set watching it with some chinese mobsters laughing and having a jolly old good time that whole entire time. Clinton,like Bush and Obama is obviously a fan of Hitler,Stalin and Charles manson.they are all mass murderers.

 

easily the best post on this thread.anyone who trys to refute these facts that the ATF,Clinton and Reno are mass murderers are themselves criminals for ignoring these facts.everything in this post of colorado girls speaks for me as well.

 

People, do not forget, most Presidents do not KNOW anything of what they speak about.

This has been the case now for at least 30 yrs.

What they say and speak is written for them.

By who?

By whoever wants to promote the state or official narrative.

Why do you think Obama kept making a fool of himself with his conflicting accounts of what happened to Bin Laden?

Why? Because he personally knows nothing. He is told what he thinks he knows.

 

as usual you talk crap as always.colorado girl took you to school and seeing how you dodge facts,you will deny that as well and deny defeat.

 

There are literally 1000s of examples of people surrendering in stand off situations. You all act as this is China. Maybe they were scared to the point they just weren't thinking clearly after the 1st raid. We need access to the catalog of negotiation tapes to settle that dispute. My guess it's filled with, "no..just go away". As if that would ever happen.