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"End looms for US Air Force's 'Warthog' ground-attack jet" This is Ridiculous!

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Dec 12, 2013.

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  1. JPRD

    JPRD New Member

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    The A-10 has been a unique beast in the air armory, and in most all respects has performed exceptionally well. Input to the contrary is solicited, but I assume the military continues to see the A-10 "capabilities" being unsatisfied by any other single weapon system?
     
    JPRD, Jun 27, 2014
    #101
  2. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    As I said, it's been choppers which have killed the most tanks and the like which the A-10 also has the job of doing.
     
    Panzerkampfwagen, Jun 27, 2014
    #102
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    You and a few others seem to miss what I had actually said.

    I did not say carrier based, but carrier-launched. Think the Doolittle Raid. Getting the A-10 to a hostile region is a major challenge, because of it's speed. But place them on a carrier going to a region, you can have them take off from the carrier and then land at a local friendly airbase. Not unlike the concept for the Doolittle Raid.
     
    Mushroom, Jun 28, 2014
    #103
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    drones are the new thing....
     
    FreshAir, Jun 28, 2014
    #104
  5. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    ...until somebody compromises the comm link.
     
    Taxcutter, Jun 29, 2014
    #105
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not that easy with encryption... but better a drone then a soldier bite the dust if so...
     
    FreshAir, Jun 29, 2014
    #106
  7. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    Anything encrypted can be decrypted if you have enough computing power.
     
    Taxcutter, Jun 29, 2014
    #107
  8. Riot

    Riot New Member

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    The tank buster has been my favorite jet since I was a little boy building models. Will be sadden to see it go
     
    Riot, Jun 29, 2014
    #108
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and enough time... that would be the key
     
    FreshAir, Jun 29, 2014
    #109
  10. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    But until that happens- drones are a great improvement over sending pilots into what would otherwise likely be a suicide mission.

    Clearly we will need both piloted planes- and drones in the future.
     
    SFJEFF, Jul 2, 2014
    #110
  11. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Theres alot of talk of the Apache's taking over that role. The British have already switched over from using Harriers to Apaches as their number 1 go to aircraft for CAS. The US is thinking of doing the same thing.

    I personally think its a bad idea. The A-10 has more range and station time and has already proven to be highly effective. It's one of those aircraft that, like the Apache, has literally instilled fear into the enemy to the point where the mere sight of the thing approaching is enough to make the enemy cease fire and run.

    It has a further range than the Apache and doesn't require a rearming and refueling point to follow it around the battlefield allowing it to strike farther and in more remote areas. I believe its a poor decision to scrap it.
     
    Nightmare515, Jul 3, 2014
    #111
  12. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Why when we have the AC-130?

    Neither of those aircraft could operate in an area without air supremacy and the AC-130 has greater capability. If they upgrade the AC-130 with Bushmaster III's and the 120mm mortar they are talking about, it will have even more capability.
     
    Questerr, Jul 4, 2014
    #112
  13. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Replace the A-10 with a modernized, turboprop-equipped version of the OV-10 Bronco. We do not need an uber-armored tank killer with an overpowered gun designed to defeat the advanced reactive armor-covered composite plating of T-80U's pouring through the Fulda Gap. We need something that can provide danger close air support against infantry targets in a COIN environment.

    An OV-10 designed as a two-seater with a turret mounted 30mm Bushmaster III able to be fired by the WSO and capable of carrying PGM's would work for us just fine at a much lower cost.
     
    Questerr, Jul 4, 2014
    #113
  14. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Thats what we have attack helicopters for. Attack helos have proven extremely effective in the COIN environment due to their maneuverability. It's pretty hard to run from something that can maneuver almost anywhere and shoot you through just about anything.
     
    Nightmare515, Jul 4, 2014
    #114
  15. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Helicopters as pointed out earlier lack range and speed. They also can't operate high enough to be safe from shoulder-fired AA weapons like modified RPG's or MANPADS. Furthermore, helicopters have had real trouble in places like Afghanistan because of altitude issues.

    A modernized OV-10 would be like a miniature AC-130.
     
    Questerr, Jul 4, 2014
    #115
  16. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    True. But why would we need a miniature AC-130 why not just build more AC-130s? Wouldn't the cost be less than developing an entirely new aircraft?

    Plus with the newer technology that we have and new tactics we have implemented in regards to Apache helicopters have dropped the casualty rate down to zero since being introduced. I can't tell you what it is because its classified but if you read up on Apache shootdowns in Afghanistan you'll notice that at some point the number drops to zero and stays there. We figured out how to deal with the threats you've mentioned.
     
    Nightmare515, Jul 4, 2014
    #116
  17. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The AC-130 requires lots of crew, isn't very fast, and can't carry PGM's. An OV-10 would have a 2 man crew, would be high subsonic in speed, and could carry PGM's.

    How many incidents do you have of Apaches crashing into mountains?
     
    Questerr, Jul 4, 2014
    #117
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Not sure of the exact numbers. I know somebody who managed to crash into a mountain though, him and the other pilot as well are fine though thankfully.

    Yes at high altitudes and high DA (when its hot) the Apache's does suffer huge power loss as do all other helos. Most of the time the incidents of people crashing into mountains are due to accidentally flying into the clouds and not being able to see where they are going. Rarely do you hear of people just trying to climb over a mountain and not having enough power. We are specifically trained to not try to fly over mountains or fly through canyons and whatnot.

    To be honest most of the crashes you hear about overseas are from people running into powerlines and stuff like that.
     
    Nightmare515, Jul 4, 2014
    #118
  19. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Which would be alleviated by a fixed wing CAS aircraft.

    Note, I'm not saying we shouldn't have helicopters, but we shouldn't expect Apaches to do the job of fixed wing CAS.
     
    Questerr, Jul 4, 2014
    #119
  20. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I agree with that. Note though that the number of powerline incidents has also decreased significantly since we no longer fly low to the ground we fly high now.

    But I do agree. Helo CAS has its role and fixed wing CAS has its role. We shouldn't try to replace fixed wing with rotary wing. I think the A-10 is just fine. Yes the gun is overpowered for todays battlefield but it is still useful and it still works just fine. Is it overkill to shoot pickup trucks with that gun? Yes, but it still does the job. Same with the Apache. 64's were designed for the same reason the A-10 was designed, to stop the Soviet horde through the Fulda Gap. It is equally as overpowered for todays role. We don't exactly need 30mm armor piercing rounds to take out trucks and people but it still does the job. Plus neither a Hellfire nor a Maverick missile knows if its target is a Soviet tank or a toyota pickup truck. It will blow them both up equally.

    Plus I know this may sound silly but I said it earlier as well. Both the A-10 and the AH-64 have established themselves on the battlefield as being absolutely terrifying weapons to the enemy. Oftentimes the mere sight of either of those is enough to cause the enemy to throw down their guns and take off running. The psychological aspect of the A-10 is a great weapon in itself. I think we should keep it.
     
    Nightmare515, Jul 4, 2014
    #120
  21. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    During the competition fin the early 1970s for the close air support plane that the A-10 eventually won, Douglas offered two options: An updated A-26 with turboprop engines and an upgrade A-1 Skyraider with a turboprop engine. North American Rockwell offered a re-hashed P-51 with a turboprop engine.

    The A-10 won.
     
    Taxcutter, Jul 7, 2014
    #121
  22. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    And in the 1970's, we needed to worry about hordes of T-80's storming through the Fulda Gap. We don't have ther problem anymore.
     
    Questerr, Jul 7, 2014
    #122
  23. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    You don't think something won't fill that void?

    The lack of tanks is why I think an A-10 replacement doesn't need that huge 30mm GAU-8 gun. A 25mm Bushmaster or a 20mm Vulcan or a pair of Ma Deuces might do foe softer targets.

    Decisions like a replacement for the A-10 are not short-term decisions. If a replacement were authorized today, it would be 2020 before it entered squadron service. Can you tell me you know what the world situation will be in 2020? If you have that degree of prescience, hitting the lottery every week should be easy.
     
    Taxcutter, Jul 7, 2014
    #123
  24. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    We don't need a jet CAS aircraft. We would do fine with Turboprop CAS/COIN and jet multi role.
     
    Questerr, Jul 7, 2014
    #124
  25. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    Turbofan engines have a lot of advantages over turboprop engines. The success of the A-10 proves that.
     
    Taxcutter, Jul 7, 2014
    #125
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