Trump has already alienated an important ally

Once again the Trump White House is conflicted. One thing is for sure. Trump hasn't been President for a week yet, and he has already alienated an important ally and trading partner, Mexico. President Enrique Peña Nieto abruptly canceled his Jan. 31st meeting with Trump. The night before he canceled his planned meeting with President Trump, Nieto delivered a fiery address in which said once again that his country will never pay for a wall on its northern border, adding that “Mexico offers and demands respect.”

Never one to be slighted without taking the offense, Trump retaliated with a border tax, although many question whether that is a retaliation against Mexico. Trump now plans for the wall along the Mexican border to be financed through a 20% border tax on all imports from the southern neighbor, the White House said Thursday. Since the border tax will be paid by American consumers, some wonder if Trump is retaliating against Americans for some reason. On Fox News even Karl Rove was confused. He didn't know the difference between a border tax and a tariff.

He wasn't the only one confused. Sean Spicer, White House press secretary, seems equally confused. “It clearly provides the funding and does so in a way that the American taxpayer is wholly respected," Spicer told reporters. Huh? We are to be respected because we are being hit by a new tax? Does that make any sense? The logic gets worse. Spicer ran through some math coming up with nearly $10 billion a year. The United States could "easily pay for the wall just through that mechanism alone. That’s really going to provide the funding,” he said. Well, he is right about one thing. The United States, through its citizens, will pay for the wall according to Trump's plan.

Spicer then adds, confusing the whole matter. “We are probably the only major country that doesn’t treat imports this way. Right now our country’s policy is to tax exports and let imports flow freely in, which is ridiculous," Spicer said.” That sounds like a tax with broader strokes. The news media is confused. Is Trump talking about border tax with Mexico or a tax on all imports as Spicer seems to be suggesting? One thing is for certain. Trump supports enacting more protectionist trade policies.

Just a border tax with Mexico could create serious problems, not the least of which is alienating a neighbor with whom we share a 2,000 mile long border. That is not wise. An across the board 20% tax or tariff could be devastating and possibly create a fair number of enemies from our current friends and allies ... like Mexico.

 

Think of this as an incentive for Mexico to pay for the wall. It's either that, or they watch their products become 20% more expensive in America, which will hurt their stagnant economy. In the end, the wall is good for both our countries because they lose workers to us, while we lose jobs to them.

 

So apparently Trump will make Mexico pay for his wall by raising taxes on Americans.
Good plan.

 

Only Americans who purchase Mexican products. It's a lot easier to understand that this is not the plan. It is a strategy to apply pressure on Mexico.

If I wanted my neighbor to pay for the fence between our two backyards, I would create incentives that would make it seem like it would be money well spent. Mexico has been giving us an incentive to build a wall, but Trump knows that two can play at that game. This 20% tariff is an incentive. Yes, Americans will have to pay for that incentive, but only if they want to buy Mexican products. That's a great incentive for us to NOT buy Mexican products, and that will hurt Mexico.

If you were my neighbor, and I had a big dog who I had trained to take a dump on your lawn, who would be the first to take out their checkbook to fund a fence? It's my dog, but I'm not the one stepping in dog poop.

 

What makes you think they are an "important" ally? For decades, they have aided and abetted their citizens violating our sovereignty. In recent years they have allowed other countries free passage through their country to enter the US legally. That is not the actions of an "important" ally.

 

nobody seems to mention there is like 600 alternatives to everything mexico sells lol.

BUILD

THAT

WALL

 

Actually, that is totally false.

They have spent THEIR money to help us with our drug problem, aliens coming here from farther south, terrorists trying to find their way to America, going after coyotes and otherwise reducing illegal border crossings by work from their side, etc.

Note that 40% of imports from Mexico contain components that were exported to Mexico from America - an export business that Trump is threatening.

Also, note that Trump is pushing Mexico toward the TPP, where our absence means that China will have the leadership role with member states including Australia, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam.



When Trump decided to hate Mexicans, he really went all out!

 

Not to mention that it provides an added bonus of hurting companies that decided to move to Mexico for the express purpose of using the cheaper labor in Mexico to sell to Americans. I can name several companies off the top of my head who did that like Toyota, Honda, and Fender. They have factories there that cost a lot of money, but now it's probably not seeming like such a great idea. Add 20% to the price of a honda and that isn't going to help move cars off the showroom floor. This helps remove unfair competition to companies that decided to remain in the states.

It's a win win win.

 

Free market capitalism says we wanted those products from Mexico.

 

Capitalism 101: In any given market, the price is what the market will bear". If US consumers want Mexican imports, they shall have them.

 

Not exactly. The free market is a physical place where people can sell their products and services to anybody they want for any price. This was quite an astonishing idea back in the day because the nobility found out that they were actually being outbid for the services of their own serfs. If the local lord wanted to build a new building, and the only carpenter in the village got a better price from the innkeeper because the innkeeper has more money to pay, he wasn't very happy about that, so they instituted price controls to reflect the relative wealth of the lord.

A tariff is more like an artificial transportation charge. This would help protect the village carpenter from some carpenters across the way who were starving and willing to work for much less. It helped keep the riches of the village in the village. Maybe this particular wealthy village has a really good infrastructure that made it possible to create greater wealth for each person in the village, than neighboring villages that did not have that infrastructure. So why should they allow that unfair competition to take advantage of the rich village's infrastructure investments?

 

Back in the bad old days of Republican President George W. Bush during which the U.S. unilaterally decided to invade Iraq in violation of signed treaties, U.S. law, and our Constitution, there was a lot of talk about American exceptionalism. That we were somehow superior to other countries. That laws that applied to other nations didn't apply to us. We forgot that our proud country was a member of a family of nations. We became a pariah among the nations of the world, and we lost considerable prestige.

From the sound of Trump supporters and Trump himself we seem to be returning to those days. Lack of respect for our closest neighbor indicates that. "Make America great again" is a nationalistic pledge, and he seems to favor isolating America with protectionist trading policies. Nationalism caused two world wars and a few other devastating wars during the 20th Century, and tariffs are a killer to free trade. If he uses tariffs, other nations will reply in kind. Plus there is the abject stupidity of the idea concerning payment for the wall. A 20% border tax means American consumers will pay for the wall, not Mexico. If Mexico's economy is harmed by the border tax, how does that benefit our country?

It is not looking good.

 

No. Free market capitalism is a system where prices are determined by the forces of supply and demand, free from intervention by monopolies or government intervention.

Your idea of tariffs being imposed by governments is that government intervention.

And, your idea of "fair" is purely political. You think it is "fair" when government makes it harder or artificially more expensive for people to buy from someone other than YOU.

 

Mexico doesn't have a drug problem. It is America's drug problem, Mexico is only the supplier.

 

Yes, an important ally. Without trade from Mexico, where will we get our supply of scum drug dealers and suppliers???

 

Probably not, if Mexico raises prices they'll price themselves out of the market and no one will buy overpriced Mexican garbage. They'll have to take those 20% out of their profits and salaries to keep their prices competitive, I am afraid. Market 101

 

Mexico is an important ally that we should be careful about offending?


ok Forest......

 

Since when. I'll need to see some links.

 

Prices are determined by supply and demand, yes. Tariffs are merely an additional expense on the ledger, along with all the other expenses that providing the supply entails which have to be passed on to the consumer.

You might as well complain about all taxes if that's what irks you because roads to the free market have to be built and maintained. That is not free, and if the locals build and maintain those roads, that is a product that is added to the expense of supplying a product. Asking people who want access to that market to pay for the expenses incurred is still supply and demand. The mexicans can have a free market in mexico, and if you want your tacos, you'll have to spend a bit of money traveling to Tijuana to get an authentic mexican Taco, yes?

 

Drug cartels. Illegal immigrants. A conduit for international aliens.

Are we sure Mexico should be called an ally?

 

I agree. I'm just pointing out that Mexico spends their own tax payer dollars to help us in slowing the drug traffic.

That's just one of a number of ways we are getting help from Mexico - help that Mexico can be a lot less interested in providing to us, given the direction Trump is choosing.

Note that the administration walked back the 20% tariff idea.

This administration is having serious problems thinking through policy issues. They have never had sound policy ideas from the start, and now they just tweet out BS and then try to clean up what turns out to be stupid.

This is NOT good for America.

 

Mexico is spending their tax dollars to help us on several problems including drug running, people entering illegally, people coming from other Mexican borders as a way of getting to the US, terrorists attempting to use Mexico as a staging area for entry across the border or across the water, the production of illegal drugs for America, etc.

Remember that the number of undocumented aliens in the US isn't growing. That didn't happen by magic. And, nobody, including the USA, has been successful with the war on drugs.

Suggesting Mexico isn't our ally is just ignorance.

 

In many cases, the more affluent, who demand picture-perfect out-of-season vegetables.

Let them pay...they're the ones that have been profiting by exporting our industry.

 

No, it goes farther than that.

For example, 40% of imports from Mexico include parts that were exported to them from America.

And, let's remember that US manufacturing output has been rising. It is employment that has stagnated. And, that has to do with corporations figuring out how to be productive without hiring as many people and by using more automation.

When US Steel came back, their plant required 10% of the employees that were required previously.


Also, note that when corporations sell to foreign countries there can be reasons for moving manufacturing there. Note that Toyota moved manufacturing to the USA (which they would have seen as jobs leaving Japan) - and that was NOT because we have such cheap labor!

Now, Ford is moving some manufacturing to Mexico, which is the target market for what they are moving. So, let's remember Toyota before we start claiming that Ford's move is all about labor cost.

 

Mexico has never been an ally of the United States.

The U.S. military has invaded Mexico three times more than any other country America has invaded.

Allies don't violate the sovereignty of their allies.

Allies don't unlawfully occupy the neighborhoods and cities of an ally with it's citizens.

Allies don't establish 50 consulates in another ally country.